Grave Days - Zombie Apocalypse Survival
I've started working on Grave Days again about 4 weeks ago - making it the 3rd time I am trying to make the game from scratch and also the 3rd time sharing it here. I've at least reused some assets, but the code is all from scratch. This might not always be the best idea but I feel that in this case it was the right thing to do to just start it over.
For the records, here is the first version: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/76/grave-days-game-prototype
And the second version: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/2194/grave-days-alpha
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127760/Grave_Days/
Summary
Briefly, the game is set in a Zombie Apocalypse. The core game-play element is about avoiding zombies, primarily as stealth, but also as running away and trying to get back into a stealthy position. Elements of combat are also tied into stealth. If you shoot and make a lot of noise, you will attract a horde. This forces you to make quick decisions and try to keep your finger off the trigger unless you feel it is necessary (or perhaps until you have enough ammo to take care of an entire horde).
I'm open to any and all feedback - and my feelings recover at twice the rate of a normal human's - so don't hold back. Specific feedback I am looking for right now:
- Do the mouse and keyboard controls feel clunky? If so, plz halp. Currently you can use WASD to move in cardinal directions (which is most useful for combat), you can hold right click to move towards the cursor (which is most useful for running around) and as an optional bonus to confuse everybody, you can hold Q (remappable) to keep going in your current direction - which is pretty useful for fending off zombies on your ass without needing to stop or change direction.
- Does the stealth feel effective? I mean, does it actually feel like you are winning at the game when you are staying stealthy? PS, you can tell you are stealthy by the lack of zombies chasing you, OR by looking at your aura. If its blue, you are good!
Background
If you are interested in what I am trying to make, a more in depth description follows.
There is of course no short supply of zombies games, or survival games. Yet I am trying to make this survival zombie game and I am trying to make it feel unique. I think the most similar game for comparison would be project zomboid, though I would like to make this a bit more fast paced (though I have not actually played zomboid enough, so I might be wrong) and with some Roguelite features to set it apart. Over the next few iterations I'd like to start focusing on survivors, their role in the world and how you interact with them, which will hopefully always be unique in how the mechanics work (trading, recruiting, betraying, etc)
After watching this episode of extra credits I became inspired to start working on Grave Days again. I think how he describes it is how I want my Post Apocalyptic zombie world to feel like. The zombies themselves are weak, slow and unintelligent. They are pretty good at following you through a door way but can't really even navigate it themselves if they haven't been watching you.
So in fact, zombies are a pretty underwhelming and inferior opponent. Though what makes them terrifying is is the persistent threat that they present. Their numbers can quickly become overwhelming if you don't deal with them properly. When dealing with them, if you don't take care, your situation can soon get worse. Either by drawing in more zombies or a longer, more persistent threat. You could get infected which triggers random bouts of fever that get worse over time, that makes a challenging situation even worse.
The last threat that they give, and perhaps the most noteworthy, is the threat of society collapsing. Survivors are quick to turn on each other and you don't know who to trust. This makes it even harder to deal with the threat. I am hoping to bring all these ideas in.
Finally, I'd like to set Grave Days apart by introducing some Roguelike elements with some unlocks and persistent world changes that carry on through playthroughs. Though of course, Death Road to Canada is another Roguelite zombie game - but it is pretty amazing in my opinion so I'd love to work on something similar
It's ambitious, but I think I can get far. At the very least, the game has 2 fans. My girlfriend and I :)
For the records, here is the first version: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/76/grave-days-game-prototype
And the second version: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/2194/grave-days-alpha
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127760/Grave_Days/
Summary
Briefly, the game is set in a Zombie Apocalypse. The core game-play element is about avoiding zombies, primarily as stealth, but also as running away and trying to get back into a stealthy position. Elements of combat are also tied into stealth. If you shoot and make a lot of noise, you will attract a horde. This forces you to make quick decisions and try to keep your finger off the trigger unless you feel it is necessary (or perhaps until you have enough ammo to take care of an entire horde).
I'm open to any and all feedback - and my feelings recover at twice the rate of a normal human's - so don't hold back. Specific feedback I am looking for right now:
- Do the mouse and keyboard controls feel clunky? If so, plz halp. Currently you can use WASD to move in cardinal directions (which is most useful for combat), you can hold right click to move towards the cursor (which is most useful for running around) and as an optional bonus to confuse everybody, you can hold Q (remappable) to keep going in your current direction - which is pretty useful for fending off zombies on your ass without needing to stop or change direction.
- Does the stealth feel effective? I mean, does it actually feel like you are winning at the game when you are staying stealthy? PS, you can tell you are stealthy by the lack of zombies chasing you, OR by looking at your aura. If its blue, you are good!
Background
If you are interested in what I am trying to make, a more in depth description follows.
There is of course no short supply of zombies games, or survival games. Yet I am trying to make this survival zombie game and I am trying to make it feel unique. I think the most similar game for comparison would be project zomboid, though I would like to make this a bit more fast paced (though I have not actually played zomboid enough, so I might be wrong) and with some Roguelite features to set it apart. Over the next few iterations I'd like to start focusing on survivors, their role in the world and how you interact with them, which will hopefully always be unique in how the mechanics work (trading, recruiting, betraying, etc)
After watching this episode of extra credits I became inspired to start working on Grave Days again. I think how he describes it is how I want my Post Apocalyptic zombie world to feel like. The zombies themselves are weak, slow and unintelligent. They are pretty good at following you through a door way but can't really even navigate it themselves if they haven't been watching you.
So in fact, zombies are a pretty underwhelming and inferior opponent. Though what makes them terrifying is is the persistent threat that they present. Their numbers can quickly become overwhelming if you don't deal with them properly. When dealing with them, if you don't take care, your situation can soon get worse. Either by drawing in more zombies or a longer, more persistent threat. You could get infected which triggers random bouts of fever that get worse over time, that makes a challenging situation even worse.
The last threat that they give, and perhaps the most noteworthy, is the threat of society collapsing. Survivors are quick to turn on each other and you don't know who to trust. This makes it even harder to deal with the threat. I am hoping to bring all these ideas in.
Finally, I'd like to set Grave Days apart by introducing some Roguelike elements with some unlocks and persistent world changes that carry on through playthroughs. Though of course, Death Road to Canada is another Roguelite zombie game - but it is pretty amazing in my opinion so I'd love to work on something similar
It's ambitious, but I think I can get far. At the very least, the game has 2 fans. My girlfriend and I :)
Comments
I think your grass is a too green and too saturated. (It's currently a saturated grass that you'd use in a kid's fantasy). I imagine a browner/yellower, less saturated variant would fit your theme and lighting better.
I enjoy seeing people recreating their previous games, largely because I like seeing what changes they make each time around (and why they think those were the problems), and how their scope changes each time. :P
@Timothy is possibly going to help out with all or some of the art and his colors are a bit less saturated which I agree suits the theme better
I would've expected my scope to contract a bit - and I suppose I've toned back my grandiose ideas in my head - but the scope for the most part is more or less the same, perhaps even inflated a bit. Though at least I have a pretty clear plan about how to go ahead, and I've structured it in a way that even if I fall short it won't matter, because the essential parts of the game play in my opinion is done already and everything I add now are just extras.
I've learnt a lot about scoping from Control Shift. I guess the reason I'm not taking all those lessons to heart is because I made Control Shift to try and make a finished game. I'm just working on Grave Days to the point where I get bored I suppose, which I don't expect to be soon because I just love making this game :) Also, I can see my skills have improved because some challenges that seemed insurmountable previous are either trivial now or in some cases no more than a day's work, so the progress is much better too. Also helped that Control Shift taught me how to really use Unity much better and I'm pretty fond of it now.
So I am thinking about this survival game called The Long Dark where you constantly need to make these tactical decisions in order to survive but with your setup you can have these essential tactical thoughts interrupted with constant reactive decisions. Which adds an extra edge, its almost like playing a survival game while being intoxicated. Which I personally find interesting because normally you would be free to make those tactical decisions within a limited time frame and that adds some mental challenge but having your line of thought interrupted adds this new layer of mental discipline which could force you to have to plan a few steps ahead?
The UI is still a bit clunky. I used the Inventory Pro plugin from the Unity asset store. I half regret buying that instead of just writing my own from scratch, but I suppose I wouldn't have been able to get something functional and decent looking so fast. Just had to deal with some annoying bugs, in particular with the controller support - which made me feel like I could've rather spent time on my own solution. But hey the full source available (all 400 mb of it :( ) and it is indeed quite modifiable. Definitely recommended if you want to make a very generic RPG-like inventory system and will only use mouse and keyboard.
I also integrated the Rewired from the asset store. This is an absolute yes! I think I had a grin on my face all the way while integrating this. Especially if you plan to have controller support. It allows you to remap controls from different input sources with different input maps, layouts and categories. It's simple to integrate and just works.
From here on, I'll start adding more items to the game and work on improving the level generation.
https://denzilb55.itch.io/grave-days/download/lrZs6qUiNh7WpKSZkFhS_4uymbVqmwbvvALGy_If
[-]I spawned close to a house and started picking up crates, but kept wondering why am I doing that, there seemed to be no connection between the crates and my situation. Maybe start the player injured in a house with a med-crate in the same room as him, so he has to use it.
[-]I didn't see a zombie and had no idea this was a zombie game for the first few moments and actually approached one in order to speak to him, thinking it was an NPC. Maybe put a zombie in an adjacent room to the player at the starting point.
[-]Loved the key-mapping screen, had no idea i could run or what I was consuming with the 1-3 keys before checking that.
[-]Still have no idea what the blue pick-ups are for, guessing its' batteries for the flashlight.
[-]Being able to reach the edge of the map was really surprising, it changed my perception of the game as open world to an arena, which promptly made me go back and explore the already visited area in search of some additional gameplay that would allow me to survive longer, a bunker or something.
[-]I felt the default light that is around the player should have been double the radius.
[-]You have what looks like a zombie counter that indicated how many are after you, makes me wonder is having 1.6k zombies chasing you the goal?
[-]Control scheme was ok, but still confusing for muscle memory when using the [WASD] keys, I ended up using the RMB to walk.
[-]Would be nice if something was mapped to the LMB by default, maybe 'punch'.
[-]There were crates that couldn't be picked up, it looked like ammunition.
[-]Would be nice to have a gun or some other basic survival tool/concept.
[-]Once I got infected and started bleeding, there seemed no way to stop the inevitable death.
[-]Seems like consecutive bandage use doesn't do anything.
The game is well executed for what you have, but it's comes across as empty, would be nice to have survival techniques included, starting a post-apocalyptic bunker of some sort, scavenging for materials, building some hope that survival is possible. Right now, I knew I was doomed after raiding the first house, since there was no long term loot anywhere.
Some things to note, you can find a gun in a chest, which you can open with the open inventory / open chest key (default i ), when you are near a chest. It's purely functional at this stage and I might as well start the player off with a gun. Once you have a gun in your inventory you can shoot. Though there's no visual / audio feedback on this yet so left clicking just does nothing, where its normally mapped to shoot, as long as you have a gun. Work in progress :) The world will always stay bounded but I might make it much bigger. I think to start off with I'll just add some ocean around to give the feeling that you are trapped on an island. Some base building, crafting, more looting options and recruiting of survivors will hopefully make the world feel a bit less empty. That's my hope at least, but I agree that it currently feels empty and arbitrary. Noted. The zombie counter is just a debug tool that I'll keep visible throughout my alpha builds. It basically tells you how many zombies exist in the playable area, and in brackets next to it is how many zombies are currently active and simulated (more or less) - ie how many zombies are quite nearby you. There are limited cures in the game that you can find in chests. I wonder if the chests are what you thought is ammo. The blue crates are ammo. I am getting some help from @Timothy and also switching to fully grid / tile based so hopefully that will improve the presentation a bit and clear up some confusion.
In the end though there will mostly be a feeling of despair. I guess I'm not really trying to make a game that feels all that "fun" but mostly one that makes you want to try and play again and try to live a bit longer. Eventually I will start adding roguelite elements. During each game play you will unlock certain things and make some changes to the world you are playing in to make consecutive play-throughs just a bit easier and to add more options. Perhaps I will add an end objective but for now it's just open-ended.
Thanks again for playing and giving me juicy feedback. I hope to address your feedback in an update or two!
That said, looking at the sample sheet above, those "stretched" sprites make for a more distinct feel that I think suits your theme well, provided they will be properly visible in actual gameplay. I like that you're potentially able to get some facial expression out of #1, though #2 has some good potential for interesting movement in the hair-that's something you could bring across to the newer style.
Unrelated to the comparison, every time I see your concept sketches, I'm reminded of this amazing (and creepy) Lego minifig cosplay :)
https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousFlirtyOstrichKeyboardCat
Fan art:
A lot has changed, including some new traits / perks trees, many new craftable items and food types, some new things to scavenge and interact with in the environment and new equippable items.
Here's a free download link for the latest version (0.9.0) if anyone is interested in giving it a shot and giving feedback. Excuse the menus, they are a bit of a mess:
https://denzilb55.itch.io/grave-days/download/XaRdcHz_CS69_L0rVX9a_CveGXh4SBxRS7lCZEjP
One cone goes outside - where the player is, the other inwards in line of sight with the player. I suspect this is not what you mean though, just thought I'd point it out. If there was another light source in the room at a "lower" position - more in line of sight with the player's starting position in the gif, you would've noticed another beam / cone going from the door towards the direction of the player. Which I think is what you are referring to. You'd get a similar effect if the player was standing in the room, looking outside and pointing towards the door as well. Though his line of sight would take preference and you would not see the full effect of the light being cast from the stationary source, because the visibility/vision field of the player basically blocks him from seeing where other light sources are cast. It's maybe a bit of a weird choice because the player can "see" daylight outside, though not other light sources. Also, the blending from multiple light sources doesn't always come out as expected yet.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, its just that the vision cone sort of moves like i'd expect light to if the light source was moving relative to the opening, which had me thinking that the vision area was actually just a lit area :)
I love the zombie genre and am currently making a general inventory system too and it is not that simple. Loot, stacking, splitting, tool tips, hot bar, cool downs, drag-and-drop, containers, durability, consumables etc. :)
I think you've focused a lot on the proc world and art, but feel your initial time is better spent working out the game-play mechanics and what makes it fun to survive or die/retry, explore and collect first and foremost. Get that game loop working in a smaller contained prototype.
I can tell there is a lot here already with player actions attracting unwanted attention from zombies when you make too much noise etc. I always fall into the trap of trying to do too much peripheral stuff, so saying it is more a reminder to me as well :)
Chests and doors... maybe open them when the player bumps into them? Having to hit a key feels like a bit too much work?
It's been awhile, but I hope you're still working on this! I'd like to see your next iterations :)
I am still working on it, just had to take a break because life has been getting a bit busy but things are finally settling down again, so I expect to ramp up to full speed again over the course of this week.
Luckily I have a team that's been working very hard on other aspects of the game - we are 3 people in total. We unfortunately lost our original pixel artist but have found a capable replacement, but she is redoing it in a new style - though we're still experimenting a bit.
I'm currently working on populating the world to make it feel less empty and less arbitrary. And doing it in a way that opens it up for "mod" support in that users can add their own furniture, items and recipes to the world. Personally for me, I needed this as a better way to manage data (building types, town types, items, etc). After this I am itching to work on expanding game play a bit, but I think I also need to juice the game up in terms of gore and other feedback mechanisms.
Our one team member is also working on really awesome sound and music, so I'm expecting the next release to be the biggest and best so far. Really excited to get it out.
I started integrating the player attack animations - quite pleased how it turned out - though my animation system is still a bit buggy and the blood particle system can use some improvements.
Here's a download key to try it for free
https://denzilb55.itch.io/grave-days/download/STVVtBkNTEt5B55xEE8Kz1KjCvIM8z5znedacwZj
Am I being dizzy?
FYI I'm using 1280x720.
[-]Not having an issue at 1280x720 windowed.
[-]Start UI is a bit awkward, it's obviously placeholder, but maybe just having a 'start' button would be good for public consumption.
[-]I don't think you should be able to destroy essential items like the workbench, or at least it should be indicated that you shouldn't hit them, maybe adding a sound and some warning.
[-]Love the graphics.
[-]Crafting makes the game feel like it's in a late stage of development.
[-]Seems the workbench is only accessible from one side.
[-]Feel like cooking should be a separate 'mini-game', have no idea what ingredients to use or what produces what.
[-]Feel like fire is not providing enough light for it to feel like safety.
[-]Having a bed in the starting location would be nice, don't really want to be walking around in the night if possible.
[-]Not sure why the light shining through the windows is brighter than inside.
[-]Dark seems too dark outside, maybe adding some ambient light would be good, or having a second light cone on the flashlight of lesser intensity acting as scatter.
[-]Would be nice to be able to break windows and enter buildings that way.
[-]Buildings are way too empty, doesn't feel like a zombie situation.
[-]Map needs a zoom feature, maybe a permanent marker for 'home base'.
This is borderline ready for early access IMO.
@critic Thanks for the feedback! Did you play on windows / mac / linux? I've had a few people complain that they cant load up a world and after inspecting the log files it seems that our audio engine's DLL isnt loading properly which is a bit annoying. It would be interesting if you are on windows and it worked fine for you, because so far I'd assumed its just works on our dev PCs because we have the audio engine installed (called Wwise)
-----------
EDIT: THe loading issue with the DLLs have been resolved.
Thanks for the detailed feedback. You've said so much, so I'll only respond to what stands out, but I'll discuss the rest with the team and see what we can do to address these things. I agree we can do a lot more with cooking. Tried a few different things but they all feeled clunky, so I decided to not stall a release any longer. We might do something where you can experiment with cooking like in Dont Starve, and you also have a recipe book that you can use as a shortcut to cook things. You'll discover new recipes by experimenting or by finding them in the world. Also, food will give buffs / debuffs - not just satisfy hunger. We might need to balance things a bit here. Night time is of course when the game truly shines and becomes a little scary, so keeping things dark is needed for jump scares. I tried adding a night time shader to allow you to see a bit around you. Might be worthwhile extending the range a bit more / making it brighter. I also think the transition is currently a bit wonky so it gets very dark before it gets a bit lighter again. Yeah definitely. We want to generate towns and buildings with themes and different loot etc. Most of the framework code is already done, we just need to get some more furniture drawn and decide how to balance the loot. For the most part I guess the end result might still be a bit messy because my procedural algorithm is no interior decorator, but I plan on cleaning it up a bit more and at least having different patterns for spawning furniture - like things against the walls, or in rows or groups, etc.
Thanks again for the feedback!
- First play through, I enraged the horde within first few seconds. Not sure what I did to get them riled but my game was over within the minute. :P
- I agree with @critic above on nights being a bit too dark. I found myself staring at the small part of the screen between my character and the flashlight.
- Got a storm on day 2. Epic sounds! Very atmospheric. Would be cool to have the storms affect play more.
- I often found myself struggling to close doors. Maybe I'm standing too far from them or at a strange angle?
- I'm aware that you're working on UI but the inventory popup obscured my character stats bars, so I couldn't see if I had eaten / drank enough.
- Also agree with @critic on "essential items". I got into a rhythm of destroying stuff in the starting room and and soon I was workbench-less. Had no idea it was a special item.
- Nights felt scary. Definitely felt threatened by zombies which made me dart in and out of doors like a rat.
- Nights felt longer than days, is that just my perception? So there is this mix where nights feel longer, scary and I'm reluctant to move around during them.
Overall the game has a clear style. The theme, palette and youthful protagonist reminds me of Monster Bash ... which I LOVED! Also gets really atmospheric.
Thanks again for the feeback, I'll see if I can check off most of those items for the next release!
And here's a video showing of some of the new audio.
Here's our trailer:
I'd appreciate if anyone can give our store page a review. We'll probably still spice it up over the next 2 weeks. I just felt a bit rushed to get it out because I'd rather have the page up a bit longer to try and build wishlists. I think an October launch might be a bit risky as it is so we don't want to delay it any longer.
I'm finishing up a few last things before next saturday, then I'll send share some keys here if anyone is interested in playtesting again.