Man I'm looking so forward to this game demo was epic gona give it a spin now again lol!! The pixel art is looking AweSum!!! Man you guys are talented just sick!!
We decided to go back to pixel art because painted broforce is too big for our team size. We can produce way more dynamic content in pixel art. It was too hard animating rambros bandana in painted broforce so we scrapped that. :P PEACE IM GOING HOME.
Even though, there's one issue in the may 20 demo that really blows: the bros are universally random.
For example, I start off with Rambo and get Robocop, but when Robocop dies, I get Texas Ranger out of nowhere. The game used to keep track of what bros you've rescued, which I think was the intended way of handling extra lives.
Is anyone here up for a text-based create-an-enemy contest? Just curious of what ideas could people churn out.
I've already started.
Navar0nius said:
Even though, there's one issue in the may 20 demo that really blows: the bros are universally random.
For example, I start off with Rambo and get Robocop, but when Robocop dies, I get Texas Ranger out of nowhere. The game used to keep track of what bros you've rescued, which I think was the intended way of handling extra lives.
That's actually how it originally was. I think they're still toying around with what they should do there.
@Navar0nius You'll be able to make a new level once the level editor is ready (Im not sure wether we will release the level editor to the public yet, you might have to wait for release :P) As far as I am aware the bros cycle at the moment, so if you have unlocked 14 bros, and you get chuck, you won't get chuck again for another 14 rolls (Im not 100% sure of this, Ill check with evan)
Oh! Pterodactyls. They grab you and try to pull you off the top of the screen, and you have to melee them a bunch to kill them. (After Navar0nius's comment, I'm going to be posting a bunch of enemy ideas now.) Edit: They could be giant eagles, too. Edit: Or giant seagulls! Because bros don't kill eagles.
Bug note: My sticky grenade hasn't been properly sticking recently. Not in any specific situation, just randomly. It slowly slides or falls straight off. It mostly does it on walls, though I've thrown it on ceilings and had it plop straight down before.
Hey, for all of you who have been playing the Brototype as much as I have (which is a lot) I've got some challenges to bring the difficulty back.
Purge: Kill all enemies and destroy all spawn points No Bro Left Behind: Save all hostages Capture the Flag: Raise all of the flags Lonewolf: Beat levels with only 1 life Ammo Monopoly: Don't let any enemy fire their weapon Batman: Don't be seen Pacifist: Beat the level without ever firing your weapon Broken Key: Never stop firing your weapon Essentials: Beat the level without using your specials Specialist: Beat the level using only your special abilities Gun to a Knife Fight: Beat the level only using your melee ability Keyboard King: Change the controls to keys that aren't near each other and frankly don't make sense
Purge: Kill all enemies and destroy all spawn points DONE No Bro Left Behind: Save all hostages DONE Capture the Flag: Raise all of the flags DONE Lonewolf: Beat levels with only 1 life DONE Ammo Monopoly: Don't let any enemy fire their weapon DONE (all levels on an older version) Batman: Don't be seen DONE Pacifist: Beat the level without ever firing your weapon DONE Broken Key: Never stop firing your weapon DONE (insane difficulty with Bro in Black) Essentials: Beat the level without using your specials DONE Specialist: Beat the level using only your special abilities to do Gun to a Knife Fight: Beat the level only using your melee ability to do Keyboard King: Change the controls to keys that aren't near each other and frankly don't make sense definitely need to be done
Did you ever though about a point system ? I think this game needs one. You know, it goes with all that bromance, showing how strong you are, comparing you muscles and manly torso hair. You would get points by killing enemies, destroying the terrain, making barrels and spawn points explode, rising flags, saving bros, setting things on fire... or that could be a new game mode :)
I agree, the game needs a score system. I don't agree with getting points from destroying the terrain though. I was thinking if instead of getting points the "traditional way" (kill enemies etc), the enemies would drop cash when they die? Bigger enemies drop more cash. Then I thought of "Bro-Fort". Maybe it would be like a survival mode? Maybe this cash could even be used to purchase stuff to use in the bro-fort? What exactly are you planning to do with the bro-fort?
But please don't add a combo system to the game, I hate it because it would make you rush the whole level. It would probably work as a challenge though - always keep the combo meter over 0 or you lose.
When I said points for destroying the terrain, what I meant about was like 1 point per block, instead of 20 or 30 per enemy killed ^_^ I though the same about the combo system. I was thinking also that giving points for finishing the level faster was not a good idea either for the same reason : as you said, it forces you to rush the level without appreciating it that much. But if a point system is created, there will have to be a timer, if not, you would have the possibility to win an infinite amount of points thanks to spawn points...
You guys should update the multiplayer version, or just add the multiplayer to the other one. Y'know, constantly keep it updated.
@DragonTech Merrik is busy working on that. The multiplayer version is always likely to lag behind a bit (until we switch to the multiplayer as the definitive version) because we've got to add more networking code to the tanks and the boss (or any new features) before they'll work over the internet.
Also, nice ideas guys! You're doing our design work for us again ^_^
We do also want some kind of scoring. But it is quite a scary thing to include, because as soon as the game says "THESE THINGS GIVE YOU POINTS SO YOU SHOULD DO THEM" there won't be the freedom for players to make up their own minds about what they think is cool to achieve.
(I mean, if we give points for things that aren't fun to do always, or don't give points for something that is always fun, then we could end up making the game feel more like a chore and less like fun).
So it's a BIG decision.
Though maybe we could include points, but make them so that they don't really matter (too much). Like most of the things that the points earn you are either leaderboards, or cosmetic upgrades. So players can still have fun making up their own goals.
Douzeju said:
You know, it goes with all that bromance, showing how strong you are, comparing you muscles and manly torso hair.
So true! There's nothing like manly torso hair to start a bromance!
Though seriously, telling players that they're really badass is something the game should be doing.
True, true... Basically if you give points for killing enemies -> players will want to kill all enemies on the level for a high score. You don't want to reward players for doing one action only, you want to let them play the game the way they want to play it and reward that way of playing it.
Maybe after the level you give awards/medals or something for the specific actions you did. The awards wouldn't actually be worth anything, but maybe the game could keep track of all the awards you've gotten and you could admire them in the bro-fort? :D
Here's a few awards I could think of: - Kill an enemy - Kill an enemy using the environment (barrels, gas tanks etc) - No deaths - Pacifist (no kills) - Sneaky (never seen) - Finish the level under XX:XX (Time Trial, yay replay value! Maybe unlock time trial mode after beating the game?)
EDIT: Then again I bet there are levels that are impossible to complete without being seen atleast a few times, and I don't want you to design the levels with that in mind, so nevermind that. :D
I'd like a customizable bro-fort that I could buy stuff for with game points or awards. That seems cool. I could add a gun room, or a gym, or a sweet reading loft where I could get some radical book learnin' done with my bros. Edit: A series of arena challenges called "The Brolympics" would be fun.
Oh, and my brother (who's playing Broforce right now) tells me that Brommando sucks. He feels he's the only Bro with few strategic advantages. He says his range should be farther and his explosion radius should be increased. I disagree with the range bit, but I agree with the explosion radius part.
I kinda like where @Ade was going with the unlocks at the end of the game. As you say, having the player earn points will cause them to prefer to play the game in a specific way, so what if you only introduced such things once they've already played it?
Another option is to have different kinds of scores. Like having a separate score counters for speed/destruction/stealth (which'd include not killing people). In that way a player can decide which way they want to play through a given level and then get loads of points in that area. Only problem with that is that if a player plays very destructively then they'd have a bad stealth score...which wouldnt exactly make them feel particularly badass when it gets shown to them at the end (or whenever)
Well it would add lots of replay value if there were a set of challenges for every level. Like, if every level had a time trial challenge, destruction challenge (kill atleast XX enemies?) and finally a stealth challenge (maybe a percentage of enemies that saw you?). So first you would play through the game the way you want to, and when you've done that, these challenges would motivate you to try all the other different playstyles.
I'm kinda confused about the bro-fort thing, I think I read something about surviving wave after wave of enemies? I think the bro-fort would be cool as a main menu - hub world kinda thing, and when you add customization to it (with unlocking more and more customization options when playing through the game, collecting awards maybe), it'd be friggin' awesome. And the more you extend your bro-fort, you get access to new challenges, bonus levels, something.
And then there would be a button you could press that would start a survival-mode in the bro-fort. :P Just throwing random ideas out there :P
Watch out not to get to far with these ideas. Maybe we've played Broforce way too much, and maybe we want to add too much things in it :)
I'm trying to compare the game with the Lego Whatever series (Lego Star Wars for example) in which you always had several ways to finish a level. Once you had finished the Story mode, you had the possibility to start back the level with any character you wanted, any cheat-code activated and without time limit. Unlocking free mode by finishing the Story mode could be a good idea... but I think the devs only want the player to feel free to do whatever he want at any moment, without finishing or unlocking anything. Without waiting hours or days before they complete the "initial game".
Ok, it took me longer than I expected to get this mock-up how I wanted it, and the gun still isn't right, but... Who ya gonna call?
Weapon: Proton Gun. I was thinking you could make it look similar to how you guys had your lasers set up in that mining game you made. I'd say it should slowly whip around sort of randomly, locking on enemies it hits, then whipping around again until it found another enemy.
Special: Ghost Trap. I was thinking it could suck in and trap all nearby enemies, but I feel like that isn't different enough from the bomb turkey. Anyone have any ideas on how it could work/be unique?
In terms of a ghost trap, imagine SC2's mothership vortex (or whatever its called). Sucks in nearby enemies and after a time spits them all out on top of each other...ready for a well timed grenade or an unlucky, unattentive player to be standing nearby. Especially if you suck in a scout, because then as soon as they come out he'll see you and they all start shooting
Alternatively what about just throwing an actual ghost...moves around for a little while and makes enemies run away in fear (good time to shoot them...but doesnt actually kill them for you).
It would be totally awesome if Broforce was somehow extendable and people could build their own Bros. Also, that would get you off the copyright hook quite nicely ;)
I think score for discrete actions is probably a bad idea in Broforce, you might want to consider alternative methods of showing progress and measuring different ratios of actions against each other, like Spacechem does to give people who play differently rewards either way. The whole histogram score thing in Spacechem is sheer genius, especially the way it shows the average histograms of everyone else playing the game AND how you're always ahead of the average on at least one axis due to how things are measured.
Having set achievement-style goals per level is a good idea, but I assume that would probably happen anyway and not necessarily be part of the score system.
@Ade That's a lot like what we're thinking of for the Brofort. Though we haven't tried it yet, so maybe we're both wrong :3
@DragonTech Ghost Brosters! That's pretty sweet. Plus photon beams are real prurty. Plus! It means we can include Bill Murray in the game!
@dislekcia That might be the first way we'll try score it, rather than scoring the player per enemy they kill score them on how violent they were compared to everyone else (if they're online). And if they're less than 50% violent then they're probably better than 50% stealthy.
I don't know if it is possible... but I'd love for there to be some style bonuses, like in Bullet Storm... only that might be far more prescriptive in terms of limiting player expression. So maybe a bad idea, but might add some Smash TV flavour.
Some of these decisions do also depend on whether we can make the points count/awards/achievements for something in the game world. Like allowing you to unlock things or purchase things. And all of that depends on having things to purchase/unlock ... which we haven't gotten to yet.
Hey, one of my friends wants to know if there will ever be character select options in the game. Also, lemme see if I understand some of this conversation correctly... Will we, at some point, be able to purchase some sort of alternate outfits, or alter a characters appearance with whatever point system is established?
Comments
lots of cool animation coming soon!
@Tuism <3
another test WIP (perspective isn't working)
If so... MAN YOU GUYS are way too dedicated.
@Tuism see page X where X equals about 5 or something pages back, or something.
PEACE
IM GOING HOME.
Also a few questions:
1. How can we play some of the levels in the LevelsXML folder?
2. How can we make a new level?
For example, I start off with Rambo and get Robocop, but when Robocop dies, I get Texas Ranger out of nowhere. The game used to keep track of what bros you've rescued, which I think was the intended way of handling extra lives.
edit: oops, sorry for the double-post
@Navar0nius You'll be able to make a new level once the level editor is ready (Im not sure wether we will release the level editor to the public yet, you might have to wait for release :P)
As far as I am aware the bros cycle at the moment, so if you have unlocked 14 bros, and you get chuck, you won't get chuck again for another 14 rolls (Im not 100% sure of this, Ill check with evan)
Edit: They could be giant eagles, too.
Edit: Or giant seagulls! Because bros don't kill eagles.
Purge: Kill all enemies and destroy all spawn points
No Bro Left Behind: Save all hostages
Capture the Flag: Raise all of the flags
Lonewolf: Beat levels with only 1 life
Ammo Monopoly: Don't let any enemy fire their weapon
Batman: Don't be seen
Pacifist: Beat the level without ever firing your weapon
Broken Key: Never stop firing your weapon
Essentials: Beat the level without using your specials
Specialist: Beat the level using only your special abilities
Gun to a Knife Fight: Beat the level only using your melee ability
Keyboard King: Change the controls to keys that aren't near each other and frankly don't make sense
But please don't add a combo system to the game, I hate it because it would make you rush the whole level. It would probably work as a challenge though - always keep the combo meter over 0 or you lose.
I though the same about the combo system. I was thinking also that giving points for finishing the level faster was not a good idea either for the same reason : as you said, it forces you to rush the level without appreciating it that much. But if a point system is created, there will have to be a timer, if not, you would have the possibility to win an infinite amount of points thanks to spawn points...
Also, nice ideas guys! You're doing our design work for us again ^_^
We do also want some kind of scoring. But it is quite a scary thing to include, because as soon as the game says "THESE THINGS GIVE YOU POINTS SO YOU SHOULD DO THEM" there won't be the freedom for players to make up their own minds about what they think is cool to achieve.
(I mean, if we give points for things that aren't fun to do always, or don't give points for something that is always fun, then we could end up making the game feel more like a chore and less like fun).
So it's a BIG decision.
Though maybe we could include points, but make them so that they don't really matter (too much). Like most of the things that the points earn you are either leaderboards, or cosmetic upgrades. So players can still have fun making up their own goals. So true! There's nothing like manly torso hair to start a bromance!
Though seriously, telling players that they're really badass is something the game should be doing.
Maybe after the level you give awards/medals or something for the specific actions you did. The awards wouldn't actually be worth anything, but maybe the game could keep track of all the awards you've gotten and you could admire them in the bro-fort? :D
Here's a few awards I could think of:
- Kill an enemy
- Kill an enemy using the environment (barrels, gas tanks etc)
- No deaths
- Pacifist (no kills)
- Sneaky (never seen)
- Finish the level under XX:XX (Time Trial, yay replay value! Maybe unlock time trial mode after beating the game?)
EDIT: Then again I bet there are levels that are impossible to complete without being seen atleast a few times, and I don't want you to design the levels with that in mind, so nevermind that. :D
Edit: A series of arena challenges called "The Brolympics" would be fun.
Another option is to have different kinds of scores. Like having a separate score counters for speed/destruction/stealth (which'd include not killing people). In that way a player can decide which way they want to play through a given level and then get loads of points in that area. Only problem with that is that if a player plays very destructively then they'd have a bad stealth score...which wouldnt exactly make them feel particularly badass when it gets shown to them at the end (or whenever)
I'm kinda confused about the bro-fort thing, I think I read something about surviving wave after wave of enemies? I think the bro-fort would be cool as a main menu - hub world kinda thing, and when you add customization to it (with unlocking more and more customization options when playing through the game, collecting awards maybe), it'd be friggin' awesome. And the more you extend your bro-fort, you get access to new challenges, bonus levels, something.
And then there would be a button you could press that would start a survival-mode in the bro-fort. :P Just throwing random ideas out there :P
I'm trying to compare the game with the Lego Whatever series (Lego Star Wars for example) in which you always had several ways to finish a level. Once you had finished the Story mode, you had the possibility to start back the level with any character you wanted, any cheat-code activated and without time limit.
Unlocking free mode by finishing the Story mode could be a good idea... but I think the devs only want the player to feel free to do whatever he want at any moment, without finishing or unlocking anything. Without waiting hours or days before they complete the "initial game".
Who ya gonna call?
Weapon: Proton Gun. I was thinking you could make it look similar to how you guys had your lasers set up in that mining game you made. I'd say it should slowly whip around sort of randomly, locking on enemies it hits, then whipping around again until it found another enemy.
Special: Ghost Trap. I was thinking it could suck in and trap all nearby enemies, but I feel like that isn't different enough from the bomb turkey. Anyone have any ideas on how it could work/be unique?
In terms of a ghost trap, imagine SC2's mothership vortex (or whatever its called). Sucks in nearby enemies and after a time spits them all out on top of each other...ready for a well timed grenade or an unlucky, unattentive player to be standing nearby. Especially if you suck in a scout, because then as soon as they come out he'll see you and they all start shooting
Alternatively what about just throwing an actual ghost...moves around for a little while and makes enemies run away in fear (good time to shoot them...but doesnt actually kill them for you).
I think score for discrete actions is probably a bad idea in Broforce, you might want to consider alternative methods of showing progress and measuring different ratios of actions against each other, like Spacechem does to give people who play differently rewards either way. The whole histogram score thing in Spacechem is sheer genius, especially the way it shows the average histograms of everyone else playing the game AND how you're always ahead of the average on at least one axis due to how things are measured.
Having set achievement-style goals per level is a good idea, but I assume that would probably happen anyway and not necessarily be part of the score system.
@DragonTech Ghost Brosters! That's pretty sweet. Plus photon beams are real prurty. Plus! It means we can include Bill Murray in the game!
@dislekcia That might be the first way we'll try score it, rather than scoring the player per enemy they kill score them on how violent they were compared to everyone else (if they're online). And if they're less than 50% violent then they're probably better than 50% stealthy.
I don't know if it is possible... but I'd love for there to be some style bonuses, like in Bullet Storm... only that might be far more prescriptive in terms of limiting player expression. So maybe a bad idea, but might add some Smash TV flavour.
Some of these decisions do also depend on whether we can make the points count/awards/achievements for something in the game world. Like allowing you to unlock things or purchase things. And all of that depends on having things to purchase/unlock ... which we haven't gotten to yet.
Also I still badly want to play those City levels in LevelsXML