MGSA Going forward

Comments

  • Just an update from side, @Fengol and @Nitrogen where working on a new website that was going to replace the forums as the landing page, unfortunately both of them have had to stop work on that due to work and personal issues.

    My understanding having chatted to @Nitrogen that he managed to pass on at least some of the work to someone else.

    I'm busy talking to some friends/clients who do web design and am hoping that we can get something put in place soon. The basic plan at the moment is to move the forums to a subdomain (forums.makegamessa.com). I'm also hoping the website will be able to handle the registration of new members AND voting for the AGM. I'll keep people updated as soon as I have something more concrete


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    This is one of those amazing posts I wish I could heart multiple times. Can we just make this weighted tag cloud the forum landing page :)

    Thanked by 1garethf
  • Quick one, unless there are specific reasons to, I think rather don't do forum.makegamessa.com, do makegamessa.com/forum.
  • Tuism said:
    Quick one, unless there are specific reasons to, I think rather don't do forum.makegamessa.com, do makegamessa.com/forum.
    Whyfor?
  • 1. I sometimes use autocomplete. So to go to mgsa I'll start typing "ma-". Not "fo-". And then I'd get confused as to why ma- doesn't work.
    2. Subdomains are shit to remember, generally URL written/printed/whatever anywhere follow the format blah dot com, if there's a slash something, people are used to that (twitter.com/tuism for example). I've often myself forgotten/couldn't find URLs because it was a subdomain. I've seen it happen with other people too.
  • Tuism said:
    1. I sometimes use autocomplete. So to go to mgsa I'll start typing "ma-". Not "fo-". And then I'd get confused as to why ma- doesn't work.
    2. Subdomains are shit to remember, generally URL written/printed/whatever anywhere follow the format blah dot com, if there's a slash something, people are used to that (twitter.com/tuism for example). I've often myself forgotten/couldn't find URLs because it was a subdomain. I've seen it happen with other people too.
    Technically speaking if they set it up correctly then both would work ... for those that prefer sub-domains and those that don't.

    i.e. The subdomain for forum.makegamessa.com would actually point to the folder /forum on the root of the server ... this is typically how I set up my sites.

  • mattbenic said:


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    This is one of those amazing posts I wish I could heart multiple times. Can we just make this weighted tag cloud the forum landing page :)

    This is why lots of sites have subforums - so if you dont want to hear about the latest flamewar, you go directly to the Projects forum. I know we've got the categories down the side which do filter, but the current forum landing page would then have to change to a list of the categories or something...
    Thanked by 1mattbenic
  • edited
    Tuism said:
    1. I sometimes use autocomplete. So to go to mgsa I'll start typing "ma-". Not "fo-". And then I'd get confused as to why ma- doesn't work.
    2. Subdomains are shit to remember, generally URL written/printed/whatever anywhere follow the format blah dot com, if there's a slash something, people are used to that (twitter.com/tuism for example). I've often myself forgotten/couldn't find URLs because it was a subdomain. I've seen it happen with other people too.
    Interesting idea, but modern browsers already handle subdomains for you: Have a look what happens when I start typing "sla":
    image


    I would argue that subdomains are easier to remember and neater, but there's very little difference actually - I doubt anyone is actually going to spend the time typing out URLs anyway.
  • It's about ease of remembering and distributing the URL. Noone talks about blah dot something dot com, people are used to blah dot com slash thing. Yes everyone technically knows about the former, but most people make use of the latter instinctively. My twitter isn't tuism.twitter.com.
  • @Tuism Well my tumblr isnt tumblr.com/Kobusvdwalt9 so I think that can go both ways.

    Why cant we have both tho ??? That way everybody wins.
  • I really like @elyaradine's suggestion. Strikes me as an organic way to cultivate the culture we want without relying on gatekeepers to say what's allowed. That is a problem with heated topics, the frequency of replies keeps them in the spotlight and encouraging everyone to pile in, making it even more heated.

    I'm not sure though if there is anyway of solving with minimal impact on the software behind the forums?
  • I really like Elyaradine's example but I feel that the Questions and Answers should also get added there as its something I see often being posted on makegames even by myself. I really enjoyed coming to the SA GAME DEV website when they had the featured games on the frontpage.

    So what I would really like to see is maybe every month the front page features images of projects done by the community and when you click on the image it takes you to the thread. Maybe even a vote for which projects to have on the front page every month.
  • I wonder what the forum would look like in a month if 'accidently' all post got wiped from database with upgrade and it gets a fresh start.

    The past weeks I appreciated a lot more productive comments and posts

    Mobile friendliness would be my major request and some kind of self organising and moderating system. So easier to maintain.
  • Will membership be for individuals only or also for companies? If we want to apply to be part of the MakeGameSA megabooth in the center of the local indie games exhibit at rAge this year, does just the company or one director need to be a member, all directors or both of the individuals attending the booth?
  • @ChristopherM: you cannot yet be a member, but when that starts it will initially just be for individuals, with company membership coming later. There are more details and clarifications earlier in this thread.

    My understanding of rAge is that you can only apply to exhibit at one of the 12 outside places shown in this thread, and the 4 places in the center are for MGSA itself, i.e. not for member games. I don't think MGSA membership affects this because it isn't in place yet.
    Thanked by 1dammit
  • If MGSA isn't showing members' games at rAge, then what do they need 4 booths for?
  • On a separate note, is anyone volunteering for the social media person? I see I have been added to the MGSA FB admin, but I do not have the time nor do I want the responsibility of another FB page on my list >.<
  • What's the status on this stuff?

    I also don't remember there actually being a MakeGames AGM, which I believe was supposed to have been around AMAZE. Did I miss it, or did it not happen?
  • .@Elyaradine: I speak under correction, but my understanding is that there wasn't an AGM last year. In terms of the website update, I believe the issue is currently a shortage of development capacity.
  • I feel like MGSA desperately need some stuff to formalise this place.
    1) A front page where we can direct attention where attention needs to go (events, other news, etc)
    2) Somewhere to house easy-to-digest rules where people can point other people to if they see any infringement. This exists in ANY community. There's nothing wrong with it being here. And is much needed, judging from what's been happening with influx of new people, which is great, but does need to be managed.

    So there's two issues here:
    1. Who's calling the shots for these changes to be made?
    2. Who can make these changes code wise?
    3. Who's willing to make these changes design wise? (raises hand :P)
  • I'm particularly interested in this thing of separating the community forum from the professional game dev community, paying membership fees, etc.
  • @Tuism thank for volunteering. I think it's also important to remember that any kind of front page will need to be maintained with content.

    As far as tech things are concerned I believe @Nitrogen is the person to speak to about it. Though we'd need to pass it by the mod team too.

    And yes general reminder that MGSA is run by volunteer who give of their own time at a net loss for what we actually want to do (make games) and some times things don't work out how we'd all like them to. (I'm pretty sure you've all read my long version of this somewhere)

    So lets try to do what we can to make MGSA better :)
  • As far as I know, everything is still waiting on @Fengol for the new website which is in some stage of development. This site will have all the requested features (front page etc) and the ability for people to pay their membership fees. I think we held off the AGM because we expected the fee system to be up sometime last year, but you'll need to ask @lexaquillia what's happening this year.
  • So from what I understand of this change is that paying for membership is not compulsory but gives you certain benefits... Is that correct or am I missing something?
  • Karuji said:
    So lets try to do what we can to make MGSA better :)
    Some suggestions:

    - Create an official MGSA todo list. Maybe a Google Docs Spreadsheet.

    - Get volunteers for each task on the list.

    - Discuss deadlines with the volunteers.

    - Have someone regularly follow up with the volunteers. Once a week should be fine, but shorter tasks with short deadlines can be once every few days.



  • edited
    I really agree with @Dipso.

    If MGSA is to be really effective we need to decentralize the work that needs to happen. This would naturally lead to better transparency.

    Considering we're also beginning to ask for membership fees, we could perhaps say those who volunteer for work with MGSA get free membership.
  • edited
    At this point in time I would be happy with any actual information regarding what's going on with the MGSA as a whole...

    - What's the state of play with the AGM voting that hasn't been wrapped yet?
    - What are the things that need doing, and who's doing them? (e.g. Running of various social media accounts, and I don't know what else)
    - Etc etc...

    I get that everyone is busy with life, business and everything, but a simple "This needs/needed doing, noone is doing it" would suffice as a start.
  • @Tuism, I suggest you get hold of @LexAquillia then.
  • Im not sure I understand the membership fees? If this means that paying to be able to chat on the forums and be part of MGSA events then I really think its going to shrink because I know personally I don't think I would be able to pay it because of a lot of other finances I already need to pay to get licences, developer release access etc on gaming platforms and then to pay to be part of an already quite small community would be bad imo.

  • Zaphire said:
    Im not sure I understand the membership fees? If this means that paying to be able to chat on the forums and be part of MGSA events then I really think its going to shrink because I know personally I don't think I would be able to pay it because of a lot of other finances I already need to pay to get licences, developer release access etc on gaming platforms and then to pay to be part of an already quite small community would be bad imo.

    That's not it AT ALL. The forum will always be free and open for anyone to access. MGSA is much more than a forum. As for what the Membership fee is about, we will wait for some official representation first.

    It will NOT be for access to these forums.

  • @Zaphire Just to add a bit to what @Tuism said (and I'm not a council member or anything like that so not official cannon).

    Things like the forum, and the meetups are free to use/attend.

    The primary concept behind membership fees, to the best of my knowledge, is that things like lobbying government or getting people to make websites take a lot of time, I know @LexAqullia has been working for years (since MGSA began) to push for game dev with whichever gov department they are bouncing him around now.

    Just to keep in mind the weirdness of this: you can be talking to someone, and they think what you are saying is great and will boost SA as a place to make games, but they can't do anything right then because we are close to elections and they have to do things strategically. Now after the election the department has changed and you now have to deal with ICT instead of Arts and Culture (I can't really remember the names of our departments) the central bureaucracy is a strange place.

    ---

    @Dipso really cool idea! There is the slight issue that it seems like you are suggesting something that requires quite a bit of micro-management, and the active people we have are stretched kinda thin. Yes I realise that is is a chicken and egg problem. But it's worth seeing if something like that could work.

    ---

    @Tuism the AGM hasn't wrapped up because of the changes to the membership system. Given that @LexAquillia is giving a talk at the next CT meetup I have a feeling that we'll hear the progress on that issue then.

    Things that need doing right now seem to be setting up the front page. I believe that the social media accounts are run by a group of faeries that spend too much time on the internet ;)

    So I think lets hold tight until the 27th :)
  • Dipso said:
    Karuji said:
    So lets try to do what we can to make MGSA better :)
    Some suggestions:

    - Create an official MGSA todo list. Maybe a Google Docs Spreadsheet.

    - Get volunteers for each task on the list.

    - Discuss deadlines with the volunteers.

    - Have someone regularly follow up with the volunteers. Once a week should be fine, but shorter tasks with short deadlines can be once every few days.



    I recommend rather a cloud based free solution like Trello please.
  • Benefit (short term) should be:
    Only paid members get to advertise on MGSA.
  • edited
    This post refers.

    After much deliberation, and consulting with some of the studios and the past committee members it was decided that it would be better and simpler to start a new body to run the "lobbying and industry development" part of MGSA (it was to be able to perform these functions that we needed to change our registration for tax and thus charge membership fees).

    I have high hopes for IESA and am excited to the possibilities it presents. However it does leave us with some questions around the functioning of MGSA.

    As most of you are aware we didn't have a AGM last year, and thus for close on to a year now Make Games has been operating without a "committee" so to speak. I've been acting as a care taker, handling emails and dealing with admin, whilst also trying to maintain the "lobbying side". It was decided in our last committee meeting that @Dislekcia would be the forum administrator and keep the forums a float.

    Since technically we are still governed by our constitution as a community then Make Games needs to make some important decisions:

    1. Does MGSA need a formal committee structure that is currently in place? Or should it move to a simpler structure?
    2. What is the focus of MGSA going to be?
    3. Does it make sense to track "membership" beyond who is on the forums?

    Since I have signing powers over the bank account and most of the backend login details I'll continue to act as care taker for now, and Danny will continue to monitor the boards. We're going to meet and decide together how best to do the hand over. We'll give feedback once we've come to a decision. I will try organise an AGM of sorts for the end of Feb, to hand over/make changes as necessary.
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