The Free Bundle

Tuism

So I saw this thing and at first I thought - another jumping on the bandwagon, but let's see if the games are any good... AND THEY ARE! Not only that, they're supporting some really good causes (seemingly).

The games are:

Perspective (cool experimental platformer)
Megaman Unlimited (I read it's by the fans and designed as well as the original megamen... WAT)
Spacequest 2 remake
The Last Starfighter
CyberMedic
HomeSick

Check it out!

http://www.thefreebundle.com/

EvanGreenwood

Tuism said:

Megaman Unlimited (I read it's by the fans and designed as well as the original megamen... WAT)

I'm not certain that cloning Megaman means you've designed a game as good as the original.

I know it's a free game and I'm not saying it shouldn't exist (or that I won't play it). I have a problem with your use of the word "designed". I'm saying that Megaman Unlimited being as well designed as a game series from 1990 by being a clone of that game series isn't an achievement in "design" in 2013. It's an achievement in execution, but the design they got by copying the design of the originals.

Dislekcia said:

When a game production team runs into a problem and, instead of thinking about the issue and designing a solution of their own, they simply look at the game they're copying and steal it's solutions, then they're cloning.

Also, after playing a bit of it... it's vastly more dickish than the originals. They should have watched that episode of Sequilitus a few more times.

After playing it a bit more... it's easily got the worst level design of any game I've played in the last few years (try out that Rainbow Man level).

Tuism

The thing is, Megaman Unlimited is not a direct clone, as in, they didn't just copy it - they took the spirit of the game, and made more content for it. It's as if the original creator went and made another Megaman - that game wouldn't be a clone, it would be a sequel. So this is like that, but only the guy was channeling the original creator instead of being the original creator, if that makes sense.

It's like if somone made a Broforce 2, with more content, and called it Broforce Unlimited. They're not trying to hide the fact that they did that, in fact it would be more of a tribute than anything else. The creators are clear about themselves being fans and not the original guys.

Now as for the legality of it, I'm thinking if Capcom didn't give them consent it wouldn't have been able to be published to this level. Cease And Desists can be easily handed out to games of this level of errrr, tribute.



Anyway I haven't played it and I just read a really interesting (I thought) article about it, so that's all I was trying to convey :)

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.destructoid.com/review-mega-man-unlimited-258027.phtml

Oh and pulling the opening lines from it:

It's easy to claim "laziness" or "unoriginality" when talented garage developers apply their skills towards a take on a preexisting IP, but I contend that the best among them possess a great sense of direction for where said IP could go. Whether it's a previously unexplored mechanic in the context of the series or simply a streamlining of familiar concepts, fan games present a wealth of potential, thus it would be foolish to simply brush them aside offhand.

More impressive than a great fan game, however, is a great fan game that completely deceives you into thinking it's an official product. There's usually a "tell" that betrays the illusion -- original art assets that clash with the style of any borrowed assets, an overabundance of recycled music, controls or physics that feel uncomfortably off, etc. But if the deception is successful....

Not only did Mega Man Unlimited deceive me completely, it also may very well be one of the best Mega Man games ever made.

Tuism

And some browsing revealed this thing... That won't ever be mistaken for an official product but looks cool nonetheless :)

Megaman... 3D! (lol) http://cutstuff.net/mm8bdm/

EvanGreenwood

Tuism said:

they took the spirit of the game, and made more content for it. It's as if the original creator went and made another Megaman - that game wouldn't be a clone, it would be a sequel.

They also took the name, the titular character, the graphical style, the sound effects, all the movement variables, the screen transitions, the crappy enemy respawning logic, the boss setup, the boss introduction, the level select screen, a lot of the enemy types and hazard types, the level progression, the character progression, along with the spirit of the game.

I reckon that's cloning. Yeah, if it was made by the original creator it would be a sequel, albeit a boring sequel that didn't improve upon the original, and in fact regressed a bit (it's based off Megaman 3 I think, Megaman 5 has more features than this), but seeing as it is someone else it's cloning.

It's more of a clone than Muffin Knight was a clone of Super Crate Box in any case: http://www.edge-online.com/review/muffin-knight-review/ If Muffin Knight is a clone, or edging on being a clone, then this DEFINITELY is a clone. (albeit a free clone made by passionate fans)

The game really does feel horribly unnecessarily dickish in any case. Try the Rainbow Man level and see how much you still want to defend Megaman Unlimited. It's probably aimed at fans that wanted a Mega-man on dickman mode (which isn't me).

If you want to see a team making a Megaman-like game that isn't Megaman but actually did take the spirit of the game have a look at Shovel Knight: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yachtclubgames/shovel-knight

Megaman Deathmatch looks awesome though!

Tuism

Wow, it just goes to show that different people have different opinions on things!

Yes I can call it a clone with you, but I really feel that its creators didn't make it with the intentions of cloning. And by that I mean a clone's intention is to make money off of other people's work and try to sneak it by other people. This one's a tribute to something, blzenly so, it's more like fan art to me.

TBH I've never been a big fan of the megaman series, too hard for me :P I only really appreciated the design intricacies :)

I wonder if other mengaman fans also feel the way you do. So interesting.

Rigormortis

@Tuism, I don't think the intent of an action can change an action. It can definitely change the perception of that action, though. So in terms of what you two are discussing I think it's fair to say that Megaman ultimate is in fact a clone. It wasn't clone with malicious intent, but it still IS a clone. If it is agreed that it is clone, then the design does not come from the creators of ultimate but rather from the game it was based on.

To take another example, there are tons of Tetris clones. Some of them add stuff like affecting opponents block stacks, or having special abilities, but I don't think the design of Tetris would be attributed to the people that made the clone. The best you could do is attribute the design of whatever feature they added to that team/individual.

Disclaimer : I have never played any Megaman...ever.

EvanGreenwood

@Tuism Agreed. I didn't mean to say they were ripping off Megaman in a way that I find unethical. I'm sorry if it came out like that.

It's hard to talk about cloning without sounding accusatory. We've all made Pong or Pacman clones at some point afterall.

So yeah, my point was more that Megaman Unlimited can't be said to be "designed" very well (as they got the design from somewhere else, and executing a game as good as a game from 1987 through copying just isn't that difficult in 2013). Not that they were being anything other than awesome in doing such a thing.

I did actually play some Megaman Unlimited. I was looking forward to playing a good new Megaman, but it didn't really add anything to the series except unreasonable difficulty. It also took very early Megaman as a starting point. There was no charge up shot, so it's really just a dude who can jump and shoot horizontal against a world filled with bad guys with hit-test damage, who cause stun disables on even the most minor hit and insta-death spikes.

@Rigormortis You should consider giving some kind of Mega Man a try someday. (Preferably Shovel Knight or one of the most recent Mega Mans ). Considering how old most of the mechanics are (Mega Man 1 is from 1987!) it's utterly flooring that the core of it holds up today without that much addition (though the early games will be very clunky and brutal if you try them now).

There's a lot of design insights to be gained from playing Mega Man. That Sequelitus video of course Also thoughts like this: http://renegadesector.com/2013/07/design-musings-hang-on-to-you-ego/ Also Broforce is essentially based on Mega Man.

Why is there no two player Mega Man. Mega Bros is a hole in my childhood that someone needs to fill ASAP.

FanieG

@BlackShipsFilltheSky - I 2nd Multiplayer Megaman...That would be AWESOME!!!

EvanGreenwood

I had a look now... and there was a sort of fighting game made with Megaman that was two players...



Nice try, but not good enough Capcom!

FanieG

I would like to see some portal style puzzles in the 2P Megaman. Maybe where only one of the 2 players gets the defeated enemy's power and they need to combine their powers in order to solve platforming puzzles. Also, jetpacks...cause awesome. Nuff' said.

Tuism

@Blackshipsfillthesky

So I'm glad I'm not just retarded because I played half a level of MMU and found it to be dastardly difficult... Which I thought was the case with all the previous Megamen (Megamans?) and was why I never got into them. And I thought lots of people said MM series was legendary in part due to its insane difficulty. So that's another to each their own moment :)

I guess though, that my idea of "design" is a bit different from yours? Yes he took the IP, the moves, the mechanics etc, but they added new levels, new weapons, new ways of weapons interacting with enemies and environments that felt like the design intentions of an older game. To me that's design, even if it was creative directed by someone else that came before. That they didn't have direct input from the original designer yet managed to remain so faithful to the original vision without verbatiming everything is impressive, to me, at least :)

But yeah, it's a clone in the objective, it-is-what-it-is sense. It's also a fan tribute, in the it-is-what-it-is sense :P

EvanGreenwood

@Tuism Every level in MMU is as hard as the hardest levels in the Megaman series, probably harder in places.

Megaman started to soften in later itterations, as coin-op arcade difficulty was no longer desirable because they could finally store enough data on the cartridges to pad the play time with actual content (instead of killing the player over and over again to pad the game).

I don't think making new levels/weapons for a Mega-man game that feel like old levels/weapons (and don't try change the feel or improve upon it) is a particularly challenging task. There's so many guidelines from actual Mega Man games to draw from. Even within Mega Man games they establish a formula pretty quickly and stick to it for 6 very similar games before they shake it up.

EvanGreenwood

P.S. I think I'm being a bit pedantic about what constitutes good design in a Mega Man tribute. I think I'm a little too close to the subject and may have some unresolved Mega Man issues I need to work through.

FanieG

@BlackShipsFilltheSky - (In Robbin Williams - Good Will Hunting voice) "It's not your fault, it's not your fault"

Tuism

Yeah I can understand I guess, Megaman is one of those sacred relics on which lots of people have their own interpretation and personal love for the subject :)

EvanGreenwood

@Tuism @FanieG Thanks for understanding! :)