Do you immediately lose if your side fills up? What does score have to do with anything?
There's like a second of respite before you lose, but yea filling up = lose. That's why there's a big danger sign when a side is about to fill up!
The score is really just for... Scoring :P It's not the most important thing, but I'm gonna also work high-scores in. Combos and collectables give higher score.
And also score is useful for the single player mode - there will be levels and there will be high scores :) It'll involve impressive block-juggling skills :)
Have you played it have you played it h e you played it? :p
Though it looks polished, it was super rushed (cos I wanted to avoid the last minute deadly rush that always happened before the *actual* deadline which is rage in this case).
I expect there to be bugs, or things that don't work as expected, or some "it would be nice if" thoughts? :)
At very long last, I've managed to give this a shot. \o/
Trying something new: these are step-by-step notes of my play session. Keep in mind that I went in almost blind - other than some gameplay vids, I had no idea what the game rules were or what the controls were when I fired the game up. Some of the following actions may be because I'm thick, but noting "virgin" actions is of importance to your design, I think.
Mah notes:
> Config/game start screen initially confusing. No controls clearly listed, took a while to figure out that I needed to *click* the "start game" button. Made sense AFTER I figured out what to do. > What the hell are my controls? WADS and mouse. W does nothing. S does nothing. A and D move laterally. Cool. > So how do I jump/climb? Let me try... aaaah, okay. No jump button - gotta keep going in the same direction. Neat. > Match-4 mechanic is very clear. Particles and arrows illustrate what matching actually does quite well. Match blocks, spawn more blocks on enemy side. > Ha! Bears get stunned when getting hit with blocks. Sweet. > Okay, so I can pick blocks up. Tried clicking LMB, lift/release animation was quite clear, so obviously I have to hold LMB. > That bear is throwing blocks. How do I... Ooooooh. Mouse aim! WITH AIM ARCS! Nicely done. > Aim arcs are accurate with no momentum. That's cool - I aim at point, that's where it lands. No complaints. > Why am I aiming down by default? Takes a while to aim an arc up after lifting. Perhaps easier to have aim start parallel to ground and shift up/down from there? > Okay, so match -> block spawn is dependent on what half of the screen the match occurs, not which player matches it. Matching enemy's blocks for them on their side means I shoot myself in the foot. The fact that chucking blocks at your opponent also gives them ammo against you is rad. > Ow. Getting caught in a match-4 blocksplosion stuns me. That's annoying. :( > What in blazes are all these coin and fruit pickups for? And what does that meter on the side of my screen mean? Is it health? Never mind - BLOCKS TO MATCH. I'll pick thingums up as I go. > OH GOD OH GOD SO MANY BLOCKS AAAH STUNNED MORE BLOCKS YAY MATCH AAAH STUNNED > Why does stun last so long? ;_; > Warning thingums on my tallest towers. That's not a good sign! D: > ...yeah. I'm dead. As are all my blocks, it seems. :( > HOW TRY AGAIN? R to restart! Yay! > I know how the menu works now! START! > Rinse, repeat, learn game, win. Still have no idea what pickups and bar on side do.
The only bug I came across was when I'd won - hitting LMB caused my bear to cycle through his pickup animation and completely kill the block underneath him without picking it up in the process (click, bear lifts, block vanishes). He would also shift down. When reaching the bottom of the level, he kept going when I hit LMB, tunnelling through the edge of the level. :P
YAY! Love your step-by-step, it's almost like getting to watch you play, which is exactly what I need! :D
I see the first menu needs a bit of communication... Maybe the iconised pixel things are too difficult to recognise on first sight, or I need to put in more concise instructions.
I'm fixing a few control bugs (for configurations other than the default P1 vs AI) today and will put up an update.
Thanks I LOVE YOU! :D
Specific feedback: > I should re-introduce the control description screen that's just before actually starting the game :) > The aiming down is a good point - the aim is actually at 0,0 power - which falls down, so it looks like aiming down. I'll shift it up a bit :) > The pickups charge your bar, which... does nothing right now, which means I should have taken it out for now, but I'm trying to see if I can get that feature in for rAge - it should charge a special power that you can use (Street Fighter Style) when fully charged. > I wonder if the stun time is too long, I've had feedback from some people who think it's too short too. Will need to collect more input :) > Kudos on finding that bug! :D Gotta fix that :)
@Tuism - I felt that the stun time was quite balanced as is. Friend I played against agrees. This title took a huge leap forward with the latest version. Well done. What special powers are you considering?
YAY! Love your step-by-step, it's almost like getting to watch you play, which is exactly what I need! :D
Yeah, it's a bit of disjointed stream-of-consciousness, but I figured you'd like insight into how a new player approached it. Glad it helped! :D
My comments regarding stun time are to be taken in the context of my being a new player, getting to grips with the controls and therefore being stunned a fair bit. Obviously in a fast-paced game having your controls locked off for any period can feel like an eternity. :P I trust that you'll tweak and balance according to what feels fair to most users. ;)
Yeah the stun time will be longer for people who're new and getting used to the controls and the game. I'll need to collect more data to see how people feel about it - though I think a difficulty curve with multiple levels from easier to harder (AI or environment) will help people through the "too hard" perception :)
As for the powers - I've just been thinking about them without implementing first (been a busy week/end...), plus there're other bugs needing fixing first... But anyway I've had ideas like: 1. A laser beam that could be aimed and destroys all blocks in a line - plus stun the other player. Probably need to be balanced by needing a huge charge. (Laser Bear!) 2. A skill that lets you throw a block into a wall of blocks and it'll displace a row of blocks by one block 3. A skill that makes the opponent's side greyscale like colourblindness (Panda Bear's power!) 4. Making the blocks bounce around while the power is active (Gummy Bear!) 5. Setting blocks on fire that sets other blocks on fire (Flame Bear!) - The blocks could be destroyed or become black (which only matches with other black blocks :P).
These are just ideas, will have to test to see how they work :) Throw more if have anything! (Gummy Bear came from @WelshPixie :P)
@Tuism - a Polar Bear power. That freezes the opponents side, so that he cannot pick up any blocks for a short period. Like a stun on the level rather than the player. A Pooh-Bear power: where the opponent gets covered in honey and moves slower for a while (not to be confused with a Poo-Bear - which is just nasty).
A minor update - fixed some controller bugs that existed for gamepad vs gamepad play, that's all. Am working on a few other things like the powers... Dunno how far I'll get before rAge but it's stable now :) More or less :)
Wow man ! I can't offer much C&c but what I can say is that you have improved the over all experience greatly , I love the start screen and the AI kicked my ass first time around :O I'm looking forward to the boss battles and tutorials :)
For those who've tried the gamepad controls, (and if you haven't and can please give it a try!) I want to ask how you found it, because I want to implement a better control scheme, here are options:
1. PIcking up and throwing the block: option A: The current method - Press and hold to pickup, release to throw option B: Press to pickup, press again to throw
I felt that holding the trigger while moving the stick then releasing the trigger made you involuntarily and naturally move the stick, which made it hard to aim...
And then:
2. Aiming: option A: The current method - the aim is mapped absolute to the stick's axis. You hold the stick at the position you want, then throw the block. option B: The aim is incremented as you move the stick's axis, so you move your aim, and if you let go of the stick, the aim won't move.
Any thoughts on these? I'm running short on time before rAge and I don't want to implement them all and confuse people at rAge... What do you think?
So I tried it out, and I kinda broke it, but I'll get to the really fun breaking it in a bit.
Firstly it took me a while to move the controller to the correct spot for player choice. My natural reaction with a 360 controller is for the analogue stick, and the game wanted me to use the dpad.
Next the game didn't recognize me entering input I tried start, A, X, and every other button, but it didn't feel like working. So then I connected one of my other controllers and oh now I can press A to start. So only controller 2 can start the game.
I played a couple of games, and beat the AI rather easily, but the controls felt odd, like I was moving when I wasn't supposed to and such which means that I think you need to add a dead zone. This lead to a really fun bug where the analogue was going left and I pressed right on the dpad and I was able to walk upwards in the air. This was nice since the AI had an existential crisis and stopped throwing blocks so be became to hight for me to hit him.
Speaking of AIs with existential crises. The AI froze up, another time and I noticed that I had a lot more blocks to deal with since they weren't comboing and exploding.
But I really like the changes to the win/loss condition it makes the game far more frantic and fun, though the other player having far more blocks on their side makes adding to it rather hard, so you might want to bring back the climbing the middle line.
1 Octoboer 2013 changes: > Overhauled the gamepad controls - the aim is now no longer absolute according to the position of the analogue stick, but the stick "moves" the aim... That means if you let the stick rest, the arc stops moving, as opposed to being reset to zero. > Drop block button added - any of the face buttons, or clicking the right stick. For mouse controls it's still right click. > Removed the power bars for now cos they're not useful right now. Will add them back as I can. > The number of blocks that fall from above will increase over time, putting pressure on the game to actually end, if both players are damn master bears :P > Fixed main menu bugs - all the directional controls now work, and the face buttons will get you playing the game (on both controller one and two), and you can click "play!" with the mouse, too. > Fixed the AI freezing up bug :)
So, second of all, @Karuji thanks for that! Funny enough just as I finished the last update I see your reporting on pretty much what I found :) You'll find most of that stuff taken care of, the air-walking things I'm not even gonna bother with right now (it's not a bug it's a feature? :P)
The gamepad control thing was majorly because the controls were absolute (as described above), and now I've made it non-absolute.
Thirdly @Gazza_N that boring through the ground bug I hadn't managed to pull yet... GRRR. But these aren't major, I think I should focus on adding more testable stuff rather than squishing obscure bugs.
Speaking of which, I hope there's no crashes in this version...
OMG I love the Polar and Pooh Bear Ideas :D Grizzy Bear can mawl through blocks and destroy then with claws! Brother Bear gets an AI bear companion. Care Bear turns explosions into balls of glittery rainbow goodness. Gummy bear can jump.
You can collect bear necessities and Goldylocks can get up to some shenanigans.
Oh and @Karuji, I was going to allow walking through the centre line, but there was just one thing that made it all to meh... You can go to the other side and pick up blocks and just walk them up to the tower on the other side and kill them by building a tall tower. It's not much of a challenge and is super frustrating. So I think that breaks the spirit of the game...
@Malaise and @FanieG thanks for the suggestions :D Bear myths are hard to come by... There's that one Hercules and the Bear thing...
Update! THIS IS IT BEFORE RAGE! Not gonna mess with things unless there are badass crashes!!
Added, for your pleasure (3 Oct 2013):
> Tweaks to the title screen. > A new controls screen. > A brand new never-heard-before title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track.
And by title track I mean it's a track. On the title. It's catchy as all hell. Promise :D
A comment, based only on my playing this in my head with the new controls (and assuming I'm not misinterpreting your instructions) : Why not right click to throw a block, and have releasing LMB just drop it where it is? Seems to me that making throwing an explicit input via a dedicated key would avoid unfortunate misfires.
@Gazza_N after I've thought of that before, but I thought it wasn't the best thing cos I want to keep the most commonly used controls the easiest to access, and to me the stick clicker was always pretty unwieldy to use. I will probably try that out too, after rAge :) Worth considering!
Also, a musical preview of what's to come tomorrow at rAge :D
Two challenges: 1. Identify the origin 2. Identify the punniness of said origin Use spoiler tags! :D
Hey man. Today I was Bear Chuck's personal representative as I was helping people play it A LOTTTTTT. So here is some feedback I have managed to get :
1. People like the name. There were like five times where people shouted "BEAR CHUCK" when walking past. 2. The controls are super complicated and need to be taught to the player in some sort of tutorial system (spelunky xbla). 3. There is a bug where it says press any key to continue, some people preferred to press start and this would not work. 4. There is a bug where sometimes the blocks float mid air and allows for players to win really easily. 5. The various strategies need to be introduced to the player in some way. Like @Kariju prefered to play it in the tetris style (witch I think it is supposed to be played in) where you try to form tetris patterns with your blocks. Most people I saw just tried to throw the blocks over to the other side to create a big tower. Some people threw the blocks as a way of stopping what the AI does. 6. People want to meet YOU. You may have been there later but when I was there people really wanted to talk to you about the game and you weren't there.
So thats just what i've noticed about the game and what people thought of it. I may post more stuff as I remember it later on.
Guys, if you think THIS is bad, I have a bug where it now launches into the bear bear bear song 20 seconds into the game, overlapping itself like 5-10 times, randomly. I have NO idea why. Like I've searched and scanned the code a million times.
Now it's a feature.
Thanks @Kobusvdwalt9 a million times over for keeping such a close eye on my baby! Seriously I owe you bears. All the bears. If you're into bears. Or their cousins which are different by one vowel.
The input is super invaluable, I'm sorry that I wasn't around the stand most of the day, I was taking part in the Netrunner tournament (in other news, I won that :P) so... There's still Sunday, I have a few ideas that I actually wanna see if I can rapidly prototype in for tomorrow :P
There are a few things I've found I really should rethink: 1. The controls. I had a few discussions and ideas did arise. Need to test them. 2. The explosions - This is my own observation - people get confused about the goal of the game because doing something "right" was been negatively reinforced, so I think the exploding blocks should go. However I'm going to add in explosions in some other way. 3. I need tutorials to be built. Arrgh. 4. @Karuji has the correct idea - clearing one's own blocks IS the better strategy, but the negative reinforcement wasn't helping.
This was INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL. We need more stuff like this. I dunno how but we do. The new open floor format will help tons. Also we should perhaps, in smaller groups, meet up more often, for everyone's sakes.
As I took the final walk from Northgate to my car after the entirety of rAge, I bumped into @Chippit, who said one thing to me that changed my entire perspective on Bear Chuck. He said:
It wasn't apparent how to win the game
And by golly, was he right!!! In the heat of building the toy that ended up being Bear Chuck, I'd forgotten to make it a game rather than a toy (and a complicated toy at that), so that'll be my next goal, a massive overhaul to give players an immediate and obvious goal. (And easier to understand controls/tutorial)
@Tuism Yeah thats kinda what I was trying to say to you when I was chatting to you on friday.
Is the point of the game to get a high score, or to get the other player to be blocked out?
They both have opposite gameplay styles. To get high scores you need to be tactical and plan how you are going to acquire points, whereas blocking out the enemy just requires you to spam their side with blocks.
@duncanbellsa That's interesting, and something I've heard and seen quite a few times directed at Bearchuck. I never ever thought of the score being anything but a decorative element - the same as Tetris, Tetris Attack, Puzzle Fighter, and numerous other puzzle games.
I think there's a few elements that contribute to this:
1) Maybe it's a cultural bias, cos I used to play a lot of these games and the goals were always something similar - survive while block the other player out. 2) The inclusion of the player as a character 3) The collectibles 4) Lack of a "setup" - instructions or context for the game beyond what's on the screen.
So yeah, I need a more coherent game design overall!
@Tuism I don't think there's anything wrong with having both, I think the game just needs to clarify how you win.
For example Tetris' win condition is getting the highest score possible before being blocked out. That can still be applied to your game, but I think the competitive nature of the game blurs out that objective.
A few thoughts off the top of my head, with regards to first playing it:
- Am I supposed to kill the opposing player? - Do I blow them up with chaining blocks? - Where is their/my health bar? - How do I score points, and what affect does it have? - Why does player1/2 win if I have a higher score than them?
Anywho, I'm just thinking out loud but thats kinda what was confusing me? Maybe because I grew up playing violent games as opposed to smart puzzle games :D
@duncanbellsa have you played two player Tetris? It's essentially trying to stay alive longer than the other player it doesn't matter how much score you get... The same as Bearchuck was :)
(I say was because I'm seriously contemplating changing a lot of the game. Gonna see how much I can get right tonight.)
And I totally agree that there is ambiguity in my design - it's not apparent how it works, and it's due to many factors including the ones you mentioned. And that may be in the intro design (the setup of the stage, how the first 3 seconds could but don't tell the players their goal) as well as in as well as the intrinsic game design.
@Tuism from your points above I can see a little animation intro so clearly now.Friendly bears ending up snarky by the end of it frantic to clear there patch of the woods. In the typical story you would see in Despicable me between the minions.
@Tuism I have not, but I see your point. I suppose when it becomes competitive it isn't really about the final score, more about simply beating the other player?
I agree with @tbulford - you just need some sort of short introduction to describe the objective.
@Tuism I was one of them oats who wanted to chat about the game :( it's cool to chat to the developer as you are playing the game so you can say things as you encounter them
I really wanted to enjoy the game cause the concept and all seems very cool but the controls just ruined it
I enjoyed playing the game today :) This was my first experience playing a local dev game and RESPECT Mr @Tuism! You are super talented :)
It took a bit of getting used to the controls. But after 3 games I managed. This seems fine to me.
I can see what the guys are talking about with regard to what's the goal, but to be fair, I couldn't be bothered. I enjoyed playing and if I decided to cover up my opponent in bricks I tried that. If I wanted to blow him to bits I did that too and even tried getting a big score.
I really enjoyed it... whatever you have planned should be epic!
I should stop hearting everything or it'll just get out of hand XD
@tbulford@duncanbellsa that was kind of in the vein of what I wanted to do - but I need to formulate it better. I do still feel like the game design is being pulled in different directions...
@loet dude! Sorry I missed you! We'll chat tomorrow night! :D The controls are really a tough one. The game was originally conceived for touch so it's become complicated on the gamepad - but I don't think that should be an excuse. I need to put in a lot more cues to let people know how it works.
@RickyGC if mine is your first locally devved game experience... You simply need to try the MYRIAD of super talented games we have here! I'm but a tadpole in a pond! :D But certainly a big thank you!
At the end of the day the game should be as accessible as is humanly possible, so I'm working towards that. Tried something interesting tonight, not sure if it's great, but I'll show it tomorrow :)
I do still feel like the game design is being pulled in different directions...
Yeah, I can see ho you feel that way, especially in the week following rAge, where I am sure you were bombarded with feedback. Think YOU need to decide which feedback to act on and which to ignore that will make the game as fun as possible for the PLAYERS. Scanning throught the feedback above i'm not sure that all needs to be acted on (not that it is not valid). I am super excited to see where this project goes from here. I was unable to attend rAge this year, but told everyone I knew that was going to make their way over to your game and give it a go. Feedback was all positive since. NICE!!
I forgot to update the rAge version, so here it is, the latest version. Just a few minor changes:
Changes 10/5
> Matches no longer explode and hurt you. - people were getting thrown by the explosion, and started throwing to the other side. No explosion is more consistent with the game's goal of clearing blocks on your side.
> Face buttons let you pick up blocks without having to hold it down. This is much more beginner friendly.
> Attacks are less vicious.
> A friendlier instruction screen for controller.
Download it here:
After rAge and a chat with Claudio and a bunch of people, I'm going to have to think long and hard about 1. Goal and design 2. Conveyance 3. Trying really left of centre things 4. Trying more conventional things
AS A BONUS! BEARIED TREASURE EDITION!
In the spirit of trying strange things, I made a version that works the opposite way - you have to dig for a treasure down below instead of fill the other side up. There's no attacks besides throwing blocks to the other side. This is rapid prototyping at its best... The actual win con isn't in yet, but you can play with it like a toy :P
Give it a try! I think I want to add a fog of war effect - that'd hide the goal and make it muuuch more interesting.
So Bear Chuck had been quite silent for a while, I've been learning Unity with the goal of ultimately porting Bear Chuck over to it because it seemed more robust, especially from the web build as well as cross-platform porting point of view.
My Unity learning experience started with me making Jack King to learn the ins and outs of how Unity works, and sure enough, it wasn't simple. The C# syntax was certainly an entirely different beast from Gamemaker's scripting. But the interface! What a pleasure to work in! It makes GMS's interface look like movie hacker stuff - Impractical and blinding.
And then I worked with @loet on Rocket Blocks which became Rocketto, @loet offered to help me with porting Bear Chuck to Unity, so I suggested that we tried a smaller project to see how we worked together. Also it was supposed to be for Comp E, but we didn't have enough time to hit that deadline. Since then @loet's gotten busy with other stuff (such is life!) and we've decided to put that on hold for the time being.
But that doesn't mean my Unity learning is over! I took what I've learned from Jack King and Rocketto so far and started dissecting Bear Chuck to put it into Unity, also with an idea of a new control scheme (ultimately that seemed the most needing-to-be-solved part of the Bear Chuck experience). And while doing that I understood a whole lot more about what I call Unity-fu - learning to go with Unity instead of against it. In GMS I built my own simplistic Physics engine to make sure things conformed to a pixel-perfect system. When I tried that in Unity it was HELL. Unity's systems are super intricate and Frankensteining my own system meant I ran into all kinds of problems one after the other (just look at the Unity General Questions thread and you'll see).
So I eventually accepted its idiosyncrasies and just used it all. I cranked Friction way up, I adjusted the colliders to be smaller than the blocks were visually, I made the blocks round off to perfect positions at every opportunity possible, etc, and I ended up with something pretty good. I like the bounciness of it, and I would never have been able to do that with my own engine.
Right now it's more of a toy for the control scheme. The bear is a ninja. He can telejump anywhere he pleases, to pickup and throw blocks as he pleases.
I hoped that this control scheme suits the game and mechanic much better and gives it a legitimate home on a tablet. Though I'm not sure if that's entirely a good thing, to completely aim for touch devices only. I've ideas of making this work on a controller, but... one step at a time!
Controls:
Please have a look and let me know what you think! I'll be updating more!
Gameplay so far seems to work pretty well. I'm not sure what my laptop has done to your graphics though.
I've just tested some other Unity games, and they still look normal, but I'm not sure if any of them are using the new 2D engine. I'm happy to blame my laptop's age for now, unless anyone else has this problem...
Holy heck, I wonder what happened, I haven't ever seen that before, on two computers... Hope other people can confirm/deny it as a bug!
Were there any performance issues, since you're talking about aging laptop. My computer at home has some performance issues with it that I think comes from the en masse instantiate/destroy of the aiming trajectory...
@edg3 yeah that was the one solution I did think of, but I was wondering if there weren't easier ways than that, cos that method would mean having to individually name them and assign them into an array and and and, when it would be so much easier if I could just draw it on the frame I need it sans all the burdens of GameObjects.
It ran completely smoothly for me. I had no performance issues whatsoever.
I've found and tried another game in the web player made using 4.3's 2D engine, and it's graphics were messed up too. It seems it's a Unity 4.3 bug. Funnily enough, 3D games and games built using custom 2D engines seem to be fine...
Somebody played Bear Chuck at A MAZE / Berlin and tweeted me this old Game Boy ad that made false advertising claims which I'm addressing with Bear Chuck :P
Also, an update has been overdue, I should do a brief update of what I've updated for A MAZE, it's pretty significant, though it's still incomplete... SOON!
Comments
The score is really just for... Scoring :P It's not the most important thing, but I'm gonna also work high-scores in. Combos and collectables give higher score.
And also score is useful for the single player mode - there will be levels and there will be high scores :) It'll involve impressive block-juggling skills :)
Though it looks polished, it was super rushed (cos I wanted to avoid the last minute deadly rush that always happened before the *actual* deadline which is rage in this case).
I expect there to be bugs, or things that don't work as expected, or some "it would be nice if" thoughts? :)
Trying something new: these are step-by-step notes of my play session. Keep in mind that I went in almost blind - other than some gameplay vids, I had no idea what the game rules were or what the controls were when I fired the game up. Some of the following actions may be because I'm thick, but noting "virgin" actions is of importance to your design, I think.
Mah notes:
> Config/game start screen initially confusing. No controls clearly listed, took a while to figure out that I needed to *click* the "start game" button. Made sense AFTER I figured out what to do.
> What the hell are my controls? WADS and mouse. W does nothing. S does nothing. A and D move laterally. Cool.
> So how do I jump/climb? Let me try... aaaah, okay. No jump button - gotta keep going in the same direction. Neat.
> Match-4 mechanic is very clear. Particles and arrows illustrate what matching actually does quite well. Match blocks, spawn more blocks on enemy side.
> Ha! Bears get stunned when getting hit with blocks. Sweet.
> Okay, so I can pick blocks up. Tried clicking LMB, lift/release animation was quite clear, so obviously I have to hold LMB.
> That bear is throwing blocks. How do I... Ooooooh. Mouse aim! WITH AIM ARCS! Nicely done.
> Aim arcs are accurate with no momentum. That's cool - I aim at point, that's where it lands. No complaints.
> Why am I aiming down by default? Takes a while to aim an arc up after lifting. Perhaps easier to have aim start parallel to ground and shift up/down from there?
> Okay, so match -> block spawn is dependent on what half of the screen the match occurs, not which player matches it. Matching enemy's blocks for them on their side means I shoot myself in the foot. The fact that chucking blocks at your opponent also gives them ammo against you is rad.
> Ow. Getting caught in a match-4 blocksplosion stuns me. That's annoying. :(
> What in blazes are all these coin and fruit pickups for? And what does that meter on the side of my screen mean? Is it health? Never mind - BLOCKS TO MATCH. I'll pick thingums up as I go.
> OH GOD OH GOD SO MANY BLOCKS AAAH STUNNED MORE BLOCKS YAY MATCH AAAH STUNNED
> Why does stun last so long? ;_;
> Warning thingums on my tallest towers. That's not a good sign! D:
> ...yeah. I'm dead. As are all my blocks, it seems. :(
> HOW TRY AGAIN? R to restart! Yay!
> I know how the menu works now! START!
> Rinse, repeat, learn game, win. Still have no idea what pickups and bar on side do.
The only bug I came across was when I'd won - hitting LMB caused my bear to cycle through his pickup animation and completely kill the block underneath him without picking it up in the process (click, bear lifts, block vanishes). He would also shift down. When reaching the bottom of the level, he kept going when I hit LMB, tunnelling through the edge of the level. :P
I see the first menu needs a bit of communication... Maybe the iconised pixel things are too difficult to recognise on first sight, or I need to put in more concise instructions.
I'm fixing a few control bugs (for configurations other than the default P1 vs AI) today and will put up an update.
Thanks I LOVE YOU! :D
Specific feedback:
> I should re-introduce the control description screen that's just before actually starting the game :)
> The aiming down is a good point - the aim is actually at 0,0 power - which falls down, so it looks like aiming down. I'll shift it up a bit :)
> The pickups charge your bar, which... does nothing right now, which means I should have taken it out for now, but I'm trying to see if I can get that feature in for rAge - it should charge a special power that you can use (Street Fighter Style) when fully charged.
> I wonder if the stun time is too long, I've had feedback from some people who think it's too short too. Will need to collect more input :)
> Kudos on finding that bug! :D Gotta fix that :)
My comments regarding stun time are to be taken in the context of my being a new player, getting to grips with the controls and therefore being stunned a fair bit. Obviously in a fast-paced game having your controls locked off for any period can feel like an eternity. :P I trust that you'll tweak and balance according to what feels fair to most users. ;)
As for the powers - I've just been thinking about them without implementing first (been a busy week/end...), plus there're other bugs needing fixing first... But anyway I've had ideas like:
1. A laser beam that could be aimed and destroys all blocks in a line - plus stun the other player. Probably need to be balanced by needing a huge charge. (Laser Bear!)
2. A skill that lets you throw a block into a wall of blocks and it'll displace a row of blocks by one block
3. A skill that makes the opponent's side greyscale like colourblindness (Panda Bear's power!)
4. Making the blocks bounce around while the power is active (Gummy Bear!)
5. Setting blocks on fire that sets other blocks on fire (Flame Bear!) - The blocks could be destroyed or become black (which only matches with other black blocks :P).
These are just ideas, will have to test to see how they work :) Throw more if have anything! (Gummy Bear came from @WelshPixie :P)
http://www.thesteventu.com/share/bear_chuck/Bear_Chuck_v_latest.zip
For those who've tried the gamepad controls, (and if you haven't and can please give it a try!) I want to ask how you found it, because I want to implement a better control scheme, here are options:
1. PIcking up and throwing the block:
option A: The current method - Press and hold to pickup, release to throw
option B: Press to pickup, press again to throw
I felt that holding the trigger while moving the stick then releasing the trigger made you involuntarily and naturally move the stick, which made it hard to aim...
And then:
2. Aiming:
option A: The current method - the aim is mapped absolute to the stick's axis. You hold the stick at the position you want, then throw the block.
option B: The aim is incremented as you move the stick's axis, so you move your aim, and if you let go of the stick, the aim won't move.
Any thoughts on these? I'm running short on time before rAge and I don't want to implement them all and confuse people at rAge... What do you think?
Firstly it took me a while to move the controller to the correct spot for player choice. My natural reaction with a 360 controller is for the analogue stick, and the game wanted me to use the dpad.
Next the game didn't recognize me entering input I tried start, A, X, and every other button, but it didn't feel like working. So then I connected one of my other controllers and oh now I can press A to start. So only controller 2 can start the game.
I played a couple of games, and beat the AI rather easily, but the controls felt odd, like I was moving when I wasn't supposed to and such which means that I think you need to add a dead zone. This lead to a really fun bug where the analogue was going left and I pressed right on the dpad and I was able to walk upwards in the air. This was nice since the AI had an existential crisis and stopped throwing blocks so be became to hight for me to hit him.
Speaking of AIs with existential crises. The AI froze up, another time and I noticed that I had a lot more blocks to deal with since they weren't comboing and exploding.
But I really like the changes to the win/loss condition it makes the game far more frantic and fun, though the other player having far more blocks on their side makes adding to it rather hard, so you might want to bring back the climbing the middle line.
Download the latest version: http://www.thesteventu.com/share/bear_chuck/Bear_Chuck_v_latest.zip
1 Octoboer 2013 changes:
> Overhauled the gamepad controls - the aim is now no longer absolute according to the position of the analogue stick, but the stick "moves" the aim... That means if you let the stick rest, the arc stops moving, as opposed to being reset to zero.
> Drop block button added - any of the face buttons, or clicking the right stick. For mouse controls it's still right click.
> Removed the power bars for now cos they're not useful right now. Will add them back as I can.
> The number of blocks that fall from above will increase over time, putting pressure on the game to actually end, if both players are damn master bears :P
> Fixed main menu bugs - all the directional controls now work, and the face buttons will get you playing the game (on both controller one and two), and you can click "play!" with the mouse, too.
> Fixed the AI freezing up bug :)
So, second of all, @Karuji thanks for that! Funny enough just as I finished the last update I see your reporting on pretty much what I found :) You'll find most of that stuff taken care of, the air-walking things I'm not even gonna bother with right now (it's not a bug it's a feature? :P)
The gamepad control thing was majorly because the controls were absolute (as described above), and now I've made it non-absolute.
Thirdly @Gazza_N that boring through the ground bug I hadn't managed to pull yet... GRRR. But these aren't major, I think I should focus on adding more testable stuff rather than squishing obscure bugs.
Speaking of which, I hope there's no crashes in this version...
OMG I love the Polar and Pooh Bear Ideas :D Grizzy Bear can mawl through blocks and destroy then with claws! Brother Bear gets an AI bear companion. Care Bear turns explosions into balls of glittery rainbow goodness. Gummy bear can jump.
You can collect bear necessities and Goldylocks can get up to some shenanigans.
@Malaise and @FanieG thanks for the suggestions :D Bear myths are hard to come by... There's that one Hercules and the Bear thing...
Added, for your pleasure (3 Oct 2013):
> Tweaks to the title screen.
> A new controls screen.
> A brand new never-heard-before title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track title track.
And by title track I mean it's a track. On the title. It's catchy as all hell. Promise :D
Also, a musical preview of what's to come tomorrow at rAge :D
Two challenges:
1. Identify the origin
2. Identify the punniness of said origin
Use spoiler tags! :D
I'm not sure about the punniness though, probably because it's on a permanent loop?
Also, I hate you. :P We are probably going to be listening to this ALOT over the weekend
Also, I have nothing against recording bear renditions of other pop tunes and changing it during the weekend :P
1. People like the name. There were like five times where people shouted "BEAR CHUCK" when walking past.
2. The controls are super complicated and need to be taught to the player in some sort of tutorial system (spelunky xbla).
3. There is a bug where it says press any key to continue, some people preferred to press start and this would not work.
4. There is a bug where sometimes the blocks float mid air and allows for players to win really easily.
5. The various strategies need to be introduced to the player in some way. Like @Kariju prefered to play it in the tetris style (witch I think it is supposed to be played in) where you try to form tetris patterns with your blocks. Most people I saw just tried to throw the blocks over to the other side to create a big tower. Some people threw the blocks as a way of stopping what the AI does.
6. People want to meet YOU. You may have been there later but when I was there people really wanted to talk to you about the game and you weren't there.
So thats just what i've noticed about the game and what people thought of it. I may post more stuff as I remember it later on.
Guys, if you think THIS is bad, I have a bug where it now launches into the bear bear bear song 20 seconds into the game, overlapping itself like 5-10 times, randomly. I have NO idea why. Like I've searched and scanned the code a million times.
Now it's a feature.
Thanks @Kobusvdwalt9 a million times over for keeping such a close eye on my baby! Seriously I owe you bears. All the bears. If you're into bears. Or their cousins which are different by one vowel.
The input is super invaluable, I'm sorry that I wasn't around the stand most of the day, I was taking part in the Netrunner tournament (in other news, I won that :P) so... There's still Sunday, I have a few ideas that I actually wanna see if I can rapidly prototype in for tomorrow :P
There are a few things I've found I really should rethink:
1. The controls. I had a few discussions and ideas did arise. Need to test them.
2. The explosions - This is my own observation - people get confused about the goal of the game because doing something "right" was been negatively reinforced, so I think the exploding blocks should go. However I'm going to add in explosions in some other way.
3. I need tutorials to be built. Arrgh.
4. @Karuji has the correct idea - clearing one's own blocks IS the better strategy, but the negative reinforcement wasn't helping.
This was INCREDIBLY INSIGHTFUL. We need more stuff like this. I dunno how but we do. The new open floor format will help tons. Also we should perhaps, in smaller groups, meet up more often, for everyone's sakes.
It wasn't apparent how to win the game
And by golly, was he right!!! In the heat of building the toy that ended up being Bear Chuck, I'd forgotten to make it a game rather than a toy (and a complicated toy at that), so that'll be my next goal, a massive overhaul to give players an immediate and obvious goal. (And easier to understand controls/tutorial)
Is the point of the game to get a high score, or to get the other player to be blocked out?
They both have opposite gameplay styles.
To get high scores you need to be tactical and plan how you are going to acquire points, whereas blocking out the enemy just requires you to spam their side with blocks.
I think there's a few elements that contribute to this:
1) Maybe it's a cultural bias, cos I used to play a lot of these games and the goals were always something similar - survive while block the other player out.
2) The inclusion of the player as a character
3) The collectibles
4) Lack of a "setup" - instructions or context for the game beyond what's on the screen.
So yeah, I need a more coherent game design overall!
For example Tetris' win condition is getting the highest score possible before being blocked out.
That can still be applied to your game, but I think the competitive nature of the game blurs out that objective.
A few thoughts off the top of my head, with regards to first playing it:
- Am I supposed to kill the opposing player?
- Do I blow them up with chaining blocks?
- Where is their/my health bar?
- How do I score points, and what affect does it have?
- Why does player1/2 win if I have a higher score than them?
Anywho, I'm just thinking out loud but thats kinda what was confusing me? Maybe because I grew up playing violent games as opposed to smart puzzle games :D
(I say was because I'm seriously contemplating changing a lot of the game. Gonna see how much I can get right tonight.)
And I totally agree that there is ambiguity in my design - it's not apparent how it works, and it's due to many factors including the ones you mentioned. And that may be in the intro design (the setup of the stage, how the first 3 seconds could but don't tell the players their goal) as well as in as well as the intrinsic game design.
I agree with @tbulford - you just need some sort of short introduction to describe the objective.
I really wanted to enjoy the game cause the concept and all seems very cool but the controls just ruined it
It took a bit of getting used to the controls. But after 3 games I managed. This seems fine to me.
I can see what the guys are talking about with regard to what's the goal, but to be fair, I couldn't be bothered. I enjoyed playing and if I decided to cover up my opponent in bricks I tried that. If I wanted to blow him to bits I did that too and even tried getting a big score.
I really enjoyed it... whatever you have planned should be epic!
@tbulford @duncanbellsa that was kind of in the vein of what I wanted to do - but I need to formulate it better. I do still feel like the game design is being pulled in different directions...
@loet dude! Sorry I missed you! We'll chat tomorrow night! :D The controls are really a tough one. The game was originally conceived for touch so it's become complicated on the gamepad - but I don't think that should be an excuse. I need to put in a lot more cues to let people know how it works.
@RickyGC if mine is your first locally devved game experience... You simply need to try the MYRIAD of super talented games we have here! I'm but a tadpole in a pond! :D But certainly a big thank you!
At the end of the day the game should be as accessible as is humanly possible, so I'm working towards that. Tried something interesting tonight, not sure if it's great, but I'll show it tomorrow :)
Changes 10/5
> Matches no longer explode and hurt you. - people were getting thrown by the explosion, and started throwing to the other side. No explosion is more consistent with the game's goal of clearing blocks on your side.
> Face buttons let you pick up blocks without having to hold it down. This is much more beginner friendly.
> Attacks are less vicious.
> A friendlier instruction screen for controller.
Download it here:
After rAge and a chat with Claudio and a bunch of people, I'm going to have to think long and hard about
1. Goal and design
2. Conveyance
3. Trying really left of centre things
4. Trying more conventional things
AS A BONUS! BEARIED TREASURE EDITION!
In the spirit of trying strange things, I made a version that works the opposite way - you have to dig for a treasure down below instead of fill the other side up. There's no attacks besides throwing blocks to the other side. This is rapid prototyping at its best... The actual win con isn't in yet, but you can play with it like a toy :P
Give it a try! I think I want to add a fog of war effect - that'd hide the goal and make it muuuch more interesting.
You can download it here:
http://www.thesteventu.com/share/bear_chuck/Bear_Chuck_v014_BEARIED.zip
>>> Click here to go to web build <<<
Hey guys!
So Bear Chuck had been quite silent for a while, I've been learning Unity with the goal of ultimately porting Bear Chuck over to it because it seemed more robust, especially from the web build as well as cross-platform porting point of view.
My Unity learning experience started with me making Jack King to learn the ins and outs of how Unity works, and sure enough, it wasn't simple. The C# syntax was certainly an entirely different beast from Gamemaker's scripting. But the interface! What a pleasure to work in! It makes GMS's interface look like movie hacker stuff - Impractical and blinding.
And then I worked with @loet on Rocket Blocks which became Rocketto, @loet offered to help me with porting Bear Chuck to Unity, so I suggested that we tried a smaller project to see how we worked together. Also it was supposed to be for Comp E, but we didn't have enough time to hit that deadline. Since then @loet's gotten busy with other stuff (such is life!) and we've decided to put that on hold for the time being.
But that doesn't mean my Unity learning is over! I took what I've learned from Jack King and Rocketto so far and started dissecting Bear Chuck to put it into Unity, also with an idea of a new control scheme (ultimately that seemed the most needing-to-be-solved part of the Bear Chuck experience). And while doing that I understood a whole lot more about what I call Unity-fu - learning to go with Unity instead of against it. In GMS I built my own simplistic Physics engine to make sure things conformed to a pixel-perfect system. When I tried that in Unity it was HELL. Unity's systems are super intricate and Frankensteining my own system meant I ran into all kinds of problems one after the other (just look at the Unity General Questions thread and you'll see).
So I eventually accepted its idiosyncrasies and just used it all. I cranked Friction way up, I adjusted the colliders to be smaller than the blocks were visually, I made the blocks round off to perfect positions at every opportunity possible, etc, and I ended up with something pretty good. I like the bounciness of it, and I would never have been able to do that with my own engine.
May I present, Bear Chuck web build!
>>> Click here to go to web build <<<
Right now it's more of a toy for the control scheme. The bear is a ninja. He can telejump anywhere he pleases, to pickup and throw blocks as he pleases.
I hoped that this control scheme suits the game and mechanic much better and gives it a legitimate home on a tablet. Though I'm not sure if that's entirely a good thing, to completely aim for touch devices only. I've ideas of making this work on a controller, but... one step at a time!
Controls:
Please have a look and let me know what you think! I'll be updating more!
I've just tested some other Unity games, and they still look normal, but I'm not sure if any of them are using the new 2D engine. I'm happy to blame my laptop's age for now, unless anyone else has this problem...
Holy heck, I wonder what happened, I haven't ever seen that before, on two computers... Hope other people can confirm/deny it as a bug!
Were there any performance issues, since you're talking about aging laptop. My computer at home has some performance issues with it that I think comes from the en masse instantiate/destroy of the aiming trajectory...
Is that simply not possible in Unity?
I've found and tried another game in the web player made using 4.3's 2D engine, and it's graphics were messed up too. It seems it's a Unity 4.3 bug. Funnily enough, 3D games and games built using custom 2D engines seem to be fine...
Also, an update has been overdue, I should do a brief update of what I've updated for A MAZE, it's pretty significant, though it's still incomplete... SOON!