@dislekcia it's a pretty deep game. Just comprehending the tutorial takes ages. Think you're well primed for some binding of Isaac upswing down the line.
Gotta admit I'm not super stoked about NorthernLions' impressions. He seems to think the game is not worth $15, so I suspect he doesn't know how much content is in there.
I havent read all the comments, but since you're doing it in Unity, what are the chances you'll do a release for Windows Phone? I only saw you mention iPhone and Android.
Alrighty, so I've never played DD until yesterday, and I've just bought it on steam - it's all Shamie's fault for persuading me to try it...
I'm going to skip the praise and admiring of game mechanics (good job though!), but just two things have struck me so far:
1. It's kinda small on a full HD screen. I've not encountered a game where I struggle to read the text like this one. It's also because there is a truckload of information available on the screen and a lot of it is 12px or smaller. As you are currently working on the mobile versions of this, I'm sure you're going to have to think about supporting multiple resolutions anyway, it would be great to have some larger options for the PC as well. Have a look at the screenshot below - the entire game is actually *smaller* than the width of this comment on the site!
EDIT: Okay just found the 1x / 2x / fullscreen controls which, while not perfect, is a good compromise.
2. The UI design could benefit from being homogenised - I know you guys switched over from the very basic graphics you had when it was still in GM, but it feels like a lot of that good old MS Sans Serif bitmap-font has followed through till now. And that's not a bad thing until you mix in some aliased serif fonts, and then things dont sit too well together. On this screen for instance:
I count seven different styles of font and/or button styles, which contributes to a cluttered feeling and left me a bit overwhelmed by all the panels, flyouts, rollovers and buttons vying for my attention. Since it's such a text-heavy game, a unified UI would help things look a bit less cluttered in my opinion - ie. all rollovers in the entire game, always look like this, all buttons like this, all panels like this. etc.
I know you guys are probably sick of staring at this thing by now, but I thought it may be helpful to have a fresh set of eyes on it.
Hah! I hadn't spotted that, now I'm wondering if the upgrade is going to break the entire game, given that there's so much plumbing in there to make sure we don't leak materials...
@dislekcia always a risk. Is there anything there worth the risk. After all you have the materials nailed already. We have upgraded for our windows Phone and windows 8 version of Toxic Bunny after all there are just so many fixed for those platforms it cant be ignored.
There probably aren't that many people that want Linux support in the game (only 13% of our Steam sales have been to Mac users so far, I expect less of that on Linux), but it gives us access to Humble a little easier and the iOS/Android support in 4 is better.
So we get Linux for "free" while we move towards mobile versions of the game.
@dislekcia let me know what installation solution you find please. That is the one barrier we simply haven't overcome for Linux. Short of here is your tar.gz folder with the game in.
@dislekcia let me know what installation solution you find please. That is the one barrier we simply haven't overcome for Linux. Short of here is your tar.gz folder with the game in.
I don't know whether or not you've already tried this, but the solution I've found the most friendly is when the game includes an executable bash script named 'INSTALL' in the tar.gz that simply copies the the game executable and it's assets into a "~/.gamename" directory in the user's home directory, then creates a .desktop file in the "~/.local/share/applications" directory.
A user then just has to extract the archive and double click INSTALL (which is the same as extracting a .zip and running setup.exe in Windows), and launchers and shortcuts will automatically be added to any menu of whatever desktop environment the user has installed. It works on most of the common configurations, requires no special permissions (apart from the fact that the INSTALL script must be marked as executable, which you can do before putting it up for download), and is transparent enough that someone can still just copy the game folder manually if they have some unusual configuration.
It's pretty simple to do. I wrote my own a while back when Kerbal Space Program came out on Linux, before they made it available on Steam, which is, of course, even easier.
@AlphaSheep, you make it sound fairly simple. Of course I would have to start with a Linux desktop. The irony is all the servers we use are Linux but we almost never install X. I think bringing it via steam of even Desura makes more sense its less effort and esp less risk for those of us not used to using the Linux desktop.
EDIT: Linux. Yes, we are loud about our Linux, despite having a very small market share. But think of it this way - having a Linux game on Steam means you automatically have a game that'll be on a 2014 console, namely the SteamOS-based ones.
Also, we'd mostly just let Steam sort out installation and all that, we have to jump through a few hoops for Mac distribution, I really hope that Linux doesn't add more. Thanks for the nixstaller link for later!
@Boysano: We'll probably release detailed numbers in a couple of months once things are stable and we need the publicity ;) For now, things are doing well - QCF is about to do better than it ever has before and I'm excited for our revenue share system to kick in once we start getting paid by Steam - we'll get to see how the choices we made way back work out for everyone.
@dislekcia: I think it is really exciting, and I'm sure it will be a roller-coaster of emotions for you and your team mates. I'm intrigued on how the decision to go for fancier (expensive) graphics will play into it, and if it was worth the big industry names on the project versus product pricing?
But all in all I think the best part is that it proves it can be done!
@Boysano: I'm confused as to what you mean about the graphics - those were mostly done by local artists. The initial items and character graphics came from an international artist that was recommended by Derek Yu, but he wasn't involved for much of the final production of the game... In terms of graphics having names attached to them, the alpha had way more of that because of the Derek Yu tileset. In fact, people kept thinking that the game was made by him because the byline for tilesets was more visible than the actual credits ;)
The only big names I can think of are our composers, who added a ton to the game over the last few months of development as the soundtrack came in. The soundtrack itself is some of the best game music I've ever heard too... Having people of that renown working on your game really helps for awareness, I can't tell you the number of tweets and retweets Danny and Grant got between them. DannyB is some sort of superhero when it comes to game awareness too - he's the one that organised us most of our streaming with MANvsGAME and who got a key to Tycho.
Okay, So I just spent 15 hours of my weekend playing DD.
All I can say is that it is an awesome experience! Well done guys. I'm on a quest to figure out who this 'H' character! >.< He has slashed my prices on monster heads dramatically and its getting to me ;)
Only issue I found was not having editable resolutions but I'm sure that has to do with the dungeon tiling and the implementation of something like that not being super easy to do. Besides that it still looks gorgeous fullscreen on my oversized comp :P
PlayTime: 18 Hours (From start to finish) Cost Per Hour: R8,33 (Super Worth it!)
I really enjoyed the game and am excited to dive into the replay value :P I find developing games which have such a nice pay off for cost per hour is awesome as it gives consumer value. for example
COD Ghosts
PlayTime (campaign): 5-6 Hours Cost Per Hour: R116,67 *wtf*
We've also just released the Linux build of the game, so if that's your preferred OS, grab it while it's cheap! (And no, you don't need Steam active to play it).
Heads up ICYMI: I get a "Failed to start game (missing executable)." with my native Linux steam version. When I check the install directory the executable is clearly there so IDK. However, if I run the binary directly everything seems to work as normal :)
Best of luck with the sale, hope you make buckets of cash :)
Heads up ICYMI: I get a "Failed to start game (missing executable)." with my native Linux steam version. When I check the install directory the executable is clearly there so IDK. However, if I run the binary directly everything seems to work as normal :)
Think I just managed to fix that - 64bit/32bit Steam configs fallthrough error. Steam was concluding that, because you didn't have a 32bit Linux OS, it should launch the default exe instead of the shell script we built for Linux.
Think I just managed to fix that - 64bit/32bit Steam configs fallthrough error. Steam was concluding that, because you didn't have a 32bit Linux OS, it should launch the default exe instead of the shell script we built for Linux.
I normally have ad-blinkers, and actively try to ignore anything that looks like an animated gif. I'm not sure, especially because I haven't done web design in yonks and I have no idea how market research has evolved, but I think that some of them are quite crowded. I feel as if you'd have a more attractive (in multiple meanings!) banner by having a clearer hierarchy. Is the logo important? Then let it breathe.
And while I know the goat's a mascot kinda thing, I wonder if having in-jokes is kind of targeting the wrong audience. Those who're familiar with the game will appreciate it; those who aren't might dismiss it. I'd consider not having to have it every time, especially if it allows for better visual hierarchy otherwise.
Again, I say this as as someone who has no idea how web banner advertising works, so I don't know how applicable that was.
Look, you're targeting something where if 2% of people who saw your banner click on it you're doing good. 5% is a miracle. So... It is what it is. I think you need to really get to the crux of your message FIRST. Difficult to fathom stuff is difficult to fathom.
I get the Evony or Ebony or whatever my lord banner idea, but the bra obscuring the text makes it WAY HARD to decypher. Someone who doesn't care won't care enough to stare for a while. While you can compare it to those "which way is the ballerina spinning" banners (barf), those have an easy first hook before you get stuck into a dumb puzzle.
Then on the goat... @El's Probaby right, the inside joke is super strong on this one, the intrinsic humour is hard to extract. Die to a goat, maybe. But maybe too niche... Ah I didn't see the other frames. That works better.
THAT SAID. With Goat Sim's success maybe there's something there? Dunno...
Could you guys do AB testing? I think that's super valuable for banners.
And then there's other usual design things like text being a bit uncomfortably close to the edge of the "frame". Though that might be fine for the sake of BIGGER TEXT. But you guys don't have tiny text yet so maybe just rein it in a bit :)
I can't really comment too much on the design aspect of the banners other than that they appear to be way too big filesize-wise (usual standard banner ad max size is 38kb otherwise you pay extra in serving fees), but if this is a paid-for campaign and you'd like to chat regarding media placement advice drop me a note since that's my day-job an' all :)
Out of interest where are you planning on running the ads, just a generic network buy like GDN or more premium?
The big question that needs asking is what sites are going to be targeted with these? The target demographic (shut up@Elyaradine!) need to defines the content and composition here. If it is going up on gaming sites it should be designed very differently than if you are targeting a casual audience on Facebook or the like. If you don't have control over that, then you should assume the the majority of your views we be from casual / non gamers, and temper the design to make it interesting and appealing to them, not to you.
Yeah, I'll echo what the other people are saying here - people have banner blindness when it comes to advertising. If I was casually browsing a site I would assume the "flashing moving visuals" are one of those annoying hit the monkey things (but with goats). Or some kind of online gambling push. Or some kind of cheesy casual game.
So how do you circumvent this? Well, google text adds are successful because they look like they could be a part of the website. So I think the key is to and be as much a part of the website chrome as possible. Like angry moose said, do you know where the ads will be pushed? Even something as simple as making the background colours match could make it look like the ad belongs on the site. Secondly I think animation, as fun as it is, is only going to harm you. It screams "I'M AN OBNOXIOUS BANNER AD, PLS IGNORE ME"
It's from a premium tech blog advertising network (that costs a fortune to advertise on). But notice how unobtrusive and polite it is? There is only a single ad. It looks like it's belongs on the site. Okay sure, you can't control there only being a single ad, but I think you can try target the other vectors.
Sadly, I don't have any numbers to back up these intuitions - so you guys better post feedback with your results! ;)
Another radical idea: you guys could implement a DD mini puzzle in Rich Media Banner. The banner could be "Try an award winning game right now" and which point it cross loads a heavier flash banner that could actually introduce people to some of the mechanics.
But these are things that I've only ever really seen advertisers get excited about. I usually just facepalm whenever I've had to make them for work purposes. ;)
Comments
Also, super congrats!
Also, I'll make the link more prominent on the front page ;)
NorthernLion's Lrt's Look at:
Also, he's really quite bad at it ...
Neat idea for the launch video! ...but your kitchen is much nicer than mine :(
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/MikeRose/20131113/204700/Video_Interview_The_long_road_to_Desktop_Dungeons.php
Also, tried to pimp MGSA as much as possible!
I'm going to skip the praise and admiring of game mechanics (good job though!), but just two things have struck me so far:
1. It's kinda small on a full HD screen. I've not encountered a game where I struggle to read the text like this one. It's also because there is a truckload of information available on the screen and a lot of it is 12px or smaller. As you are currently working on the mobile versions of this, I'm sure you're going to have to think about supporting multiple resolutions anyway, it would be great to have some larger options for the PC as well. Have a look at the screenshot below - the entire game is actually *smaller* than the width of this comment on the site!
EDIT: Okay just found the 1x / 2x / fullscreen controls which, while not perfect, is a good compromise.
2. The UI design could benefit from being homogenised - I know you guys switched over from the very basic graphics you had when it was still in GM, but it feels like a lot of that good old MS Sans Serif bitmap-font has followed through till now. And that's not a bad thing until you mix in some aliased serif fonts, and then things dont sit too well together. On this screen for instance:
I count seven different styles of font and/or button styles, which contributes to a cluttered feeling and left me a bit overwhelmed by all the panels, flyouts, rollovers and buttons vying for my attention. Since it's such a text-heavy game, a unified UI would help things look a bit less cluttered in my opinion - ie. all rollovers in the entire game, always look like this, all buttons like this, all panels like this. etc.
I know you guys are probably sick of staring at this thing by now, but I thought it may be helpful to have a fresh set of eyes on it.
Otherwise, keep up the good work :D
Full list available here http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-4.3
There probably aren't that many people that want Linux support in the game (only 13% of our Steam sales have been to Mac users so far, I expect less of that on Linux), but it gives us access to Humble a little easier and the iOS/Android support in 4 is better.
So we get Linux for "free" while we move towards mobile versions of the game.
A user then just has to extract the archive and double click INSTALL (which is the same as extracting a .zip and running setup.exe in Windows), and launchers and shortcuts will automatically be added to any menu of whatever desktop environment the user has installed. It works on most of the common configurations, requires no special permissions (apart from the fact that the INSTALL script must be marked as executable, which you can do before putting it up for download), and is transparent enough that someone can still just copy the game folder manually if they have some unusual configuration.
It's pretty simple to do. I wrote my own a while back when Kerbal Space Program came out on Linux, before they made it available on Steam, which is, of course, even easier.
Congratulations!!
EDIT: Linux. Yes, we are loud about our Linux, despite having a very small market share. But think of it this way - having a Linux game on Steam means you automatically have a game that'll be on a 2014 console, namely the SteamOS-based ones.
EDIT 2: Shout if you need help. :)
Also, we'd mostly just let Steam sort out installation and all that, we have to jump through a few hoops for Mac distribution, I really hope that Linux doesn't add more. Thanks for the nixstaller link for later!
@Boysano: We'll probably release detailed numbers in a couple of months once things are stable and we need the publicity ;) For now, things are doing well - QCF is about to do better than it ever has before and I'm excited for our revenue share system to kick in once we start getting paid by Steam - we'll get to see how the choices we made way back work out for everyone.
But all in all I think the best part is that it proves it can be done!
The only big names I can think of are our composers, who added a ton to the game over the last few months of development as the soundtrack came in. The soundtrack itself is some of the best game music I've ever heard too... Having people of that renown working on your game really helps for awareness, I can't tell you the number of tweets and retweets Danny and Grant got between them. DannyB is some sort of superhero when it comes to game awareness too - he's the one that organised us most of our streaming with MANvsGAME and who got a key to Tycho.
All I can say is that it is an awesome experience! Well done guys. I'm on a quest to figure out who this 'H' character! >.< He has slashed my prices on monster heads dramatically and its getting to me ;)
Only issue I found was not having editable resolutions but I'm sure that has to do with the dungeon tiling and the implementation of something like that not being super easy to do. Besides that it still looks gorgeous fullscreen on my oversized comp :P
Desktop Dungeons Experience for me:
PlayTime: 18 Hours (From start to finish)
Cost Per Hour: R8,33 (Super Worth it!)
I really enjoyed the game and am excited to dive into the replay value :P I find developing games which have such a nice pay off for cost per hour is awesome as it gives consumer value. for example
COD Ghosts
PlayTime (campaign): 5-6 Hours
Cost Per Hour: R116,67 *wtf*
So yeah really enjoyed :P
We've also just released the Linux build of the game, so if that's your preferred OS, grab it while it's cheap! (And no, you don't need Steam active to play it).
Best of luck with the sale, hope you make buckets of cash :)
Would anyone like to offer feedback on these?
I normally have ad-blinkers, and actively try to ignore anything that looks like an animated gif. I'm not sure, especially because I haven't done web design in yonks and I have no idea how market research has evolved, but I think that some of them are quite crowded. I feel as if you'd have a more attractive (in multiple meanings!) banner by having a clearer hierarchy. Is the logo important? Then let it breathe.
And while I know the goat's a mascot kinda thing, I wonder if having in-jokes is kind of targeting the wrong audience. Those who're familiar with the game will appreciate it; those who aren't might dismiss it. I'd consider not having to have it every time, especially if it allows for better visual hierarchy otherwise.
Again, I say this as as someone who has no idea how web banner advertising works, so I don't know how applicable that was.
Look, you're targeting something where if 2% of people who saw your banner click on it you're doing good. 5% is a miracle. So... It is what it is. I think you need to really get to the crux of your message FIRST. Difficult to fathom stuff is difficult to fathom.
I get the Evony or Ebony or whatever my lord banner idea, but the bra obscuring the text makes it WAY HARD to decypher. Someone who doesn't care won't care enough to stare for a while. While you can compare it to those "which way is the ballerina spinning" banners (barf), those have an easy first hook before you get stuck into a dumb puzzle.
Then on the goat... @El's Probaby right, the inside joke is super strong on this one, the intrinsic humour is hard to extract. Die to a goat, maybe. But maybe too niche... Ah I didn't see the other frames. That works better.
THAT SAID. With Goat Sim's success maybe there's something there? Dunno...
Could you guys do AB testing? I think that's super valuable for banners.
And then there's other usual design things like text being a bit uncomfortably close to the edge of the "frame". Though that might be fine for the sake of BIGGER TEXT. But you guys don't have tiny text yet so maybe just rein it in a bit :)
Out of interest where are you planning on running the ads, just a generic network buy like GDN or more premium?
So how do you circumvent this? Well, google text adds are successful because they look like they could be a part of the website. So I think the key is to and be as much a part of the website chrome as possible. Like angry moose said, do you know where the ads will be pushed? Even something as simple as making the background colours match could make it look like the ad belongs on the site. Secondly I think animation, as fun as it is, is only going to harm you. It screams "I'M AN OBNOXIOUS BANNER AD, PLS IGNORE ME"
Look at this site (with adblock turned off):
http://daringfireball.net/
It's from a premium tech blog advertising network (that costs a fortune to advertise on). But notice how unobtrusive and polite it is? There is only a single ad. It looks like it's belongs on the site. Okay sure, you can't control there only being a single ad, but I think you can try target the other vectors.
Sadly, I don't have any numbers to back up these intuitions - so you guys better post feedback with your results! ;)
But these are things that I've only ever really seen advertisers get excited about. I usually just facepalm whenever I've had to make them for work purposes. ;)