ZAGD Declares WAR on MGSA
It is amazing how a single catalyst like [removed name of forum member at request - admin] can bring about such a vendetta.
6 Months ago ZAGD was founded by game developers who sought to do things completely differently. Notably , unprofessionally.
We were attacked from day one on the first thread by insecure MGSA leaders who have tried everything to stop us by convincing the community that we were not of value to SA and that our admin were a destructive wrecking crew.
UNFORTUNATELY FOR MGSA - They could not have been more wrong.
Many games have been marketed successfully through ZAGD as we have created alliances with different parties rather then trying to tare them down.
The privileged white MGSA community which dominates Google Search Engine Rankings and takes the pickings of the top of a introverted internal waste of time marketing system based on control has proven to fall short of what can be achieved by social media.
We have specifically shown the world that more can be achieved with Social Media then with a simple website with thousands of policies and rules.
What you don't know, is that while MGSA was taking breaths while ZAGD went on maintenance mode, we were actualy putting together a team of unprofessional, Attorneys, programmers, CA's, Teachers, Marketers and several companies that have all fallen under the ZAGD brand.
We have investment, Alliances and we still promote all communities and have no rules!!
Thus the primary objective of ZAGD is now to take the Market completely away from MGSA & render the community defeated.
All ex MGSA members are welcome to Join our 650 members on ZAGD and we will be offering internships in the near future at NSG.
Capitalist, introvert communities, lead by people who coppy and mimic international market trends and ideas of professionalism is not welcome in SA and we encourage everyone to leave MGSA & Join ZAGD and sister communities / Alliances. As MGSA is rot.
Why the strong take on the matter...well after reading the previous thread 'ZAGD Response', I can only say that MGSA is unreasonable and is now discussing ZAGD tactics in order to move the community forward.
But the admins of MGSA know, that by moving to social media, they will play second fiddle to ZAGD & Their wonderful makegamessa.com forum will be all but abandoned...That is why dear matt is trying so hard to convince you in the other thread that the forums are the way to go.
MGSA is stagnant and shrinking.
Again another ZAGD post hits top on their forums 'ZAGD Response' It is now time for you to admit defeat and take on a new culture of Marketting, an unprofessional brotherhood of Game Developers, Marketers and animators, mixed in with Gamers of both international and national locations.
Oh and guys, all the hundreds of hate mails that I received in my Facebook in box, well, on behalf of ZAGD, I would like to say, go fuck yourselves, we are not going anywhere, we don't care about professionalism, we only care about fun, community, marketing and branding...
and the only way to achieve that is by having fun, not boxing the community into little corners or having leaders controlling the community! There is a place for everyone at ZAGD.
Have a great fucking day! Soon you will assimilate with the Alpha community.
We ain't scared to Market! (Our new Slogan)
http://southafricangamedevelopers.com
6 Months ago ZAGD was founded by game developers who sought to do things completely differently. Notably , unprofessionally.
We were attacked from day one on the first thread by insecure MGSA leaders who have tried everything to stop us by convincing the community that we were not of value to SA and that our admin were a destructive wrecking crew.
UNFORTUNATELY FOR MGSA - They could not have been more wrong.
Many games have been marketed successfully through ZAGD as we have created alliances with different parties rather then trying to tare them down.
The privileged white MGSA community which dominates Google Search Engine Rankings and takes the pickings of the top of a introverted internal waste of time marketing system based on control has proven to fall short of what can be achieved by social media.
We have specifically shown the world that more can be achieved with Social Media then with a simple website with thousands of policies and rules.
What you don't know, is that while MGSA was taking breaths while ZAGD went on maintenance mode, we were actualy putting together a team of unprofessional, Attorneys, programmers, CA's, Teachers, Marketers and several companies that have all fallen under the ZAGD brand.
We have investment, Alliances and we still promote all communities and have no rules!!
Thus the primary objective of ZAGD is now to take the Market completely away from MGSA & render the community defeated.
All ex MGSA members are welcome to Join our 650 members on ZAGD and we will be offering internships in the near future at NSG.
Capitalist, introvert communities, lead by people who coppy and mimic international market trends and ideas of professionalism is not welcome in SA and we encourage everyone to leave MGSA & Join ZAGD and sister communities / Alliances. As MGSA is rot.
Why the strong take on the matter...well after reading the previous thread 'ZAGD Response', I can only say that MGSA is unreasonable and is now discussing ZAGD tactics in order to move the community forward.
But the admins of MGSA know, that by moving to social media, they will play second fiddle to ZAGD & Their wonderful makegamessa.com forum will be all but abandoned...That is why dear matt is trying so hard to convince you in the other thread that the forums are the way to go.
MGSA is stagnant and shrinking.
Again another ZAGD post hits top on their forums 'ZAGD Response' It is now time for you to admit defeat and take on a new culture of Marketting, an unprofessional brotherhood of Game Developers, Marketers and animators, mixed in with Gamers of both international and national locations.
Oh and guys, all the hundreds of hate mails that I received in my Facebook in box, well, on behalf of ZAGD, I would like to say, go fuck yourselves, we are not going anywhere, we don't care about professionalism, we only care about fun, community, marketing and branding...
and the only way to achieve that is by having fun, not boxing the community into little corners or having leaders controlling the community! There is a place for everyone at ZAGD.
Have a great fucking day! Soon you will assimilate with the Alpha community.
We ain't scared to Market! (Our new Slogan)
http://southafricangamedevelopers.com
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
And no one is worried about MGSA being abandoned. If you haven't realized by now, anyone that seems like they are worried about people moving from MGSA to ZAGD isn't worried about the "leaving MGSA" part at all. They are worried that the person is going to a community run by someone who is more interested in starting some magical war out of nothing, than helping that person build games and learn skills. It may surprise you, but some people legitimately care about people, not just about their ego's.
Anyway, my question from the previous post (why do we keep moving to new posts?) about your culculations still stands.
EDIT: Removed a paragraph replying to your matt comment, which I had thought was me ;-)
@julian, can the two spaces not live simultaneously? No one is charging money for them so it's quite easy to be "members" of both spaces, no?
I don't see a situation where both existing would be a harm to either. I personally like MGSA content and the people here.
Not that I've not had my problems with it. But we fundamentally all want to make good games and help those around us. We want to be sensitive to problematic content and we want to be professional. As a result we've been trying to grow to encompass those values. That's quite a cool thing and despite the sometimes seemingly endless growing pains I'm proud that I'm part of that. I've also been very critical and distanced myself sometimes but I'm poking around now and everyone seems to be getting along here alright :)
So, like, if you would like your anarchistic style forums with no rules then sure, go for it. Does that mean that these forums and these people have to "choose" one and only one? I joined up on the ZAGD page for a bit, wanted to see what was going on. I think I posted a thing or two, can't remember but I was a "member" of both simultaneously and like... that would have worked out fine, no? (in the end it wasn't my vibe so I left that Facebook group, have my reasons that I posted on my fb wall ages ago)
I don't see the need for a war. Go do your thing. There is no "better" group necessarily. They would serve different interests. Super Friendship Arcade existed somewhat outside this community for a long time, but interfaced with it (correct me if I'm wrong) . That I think (and I am biased having been part of that) was one of this community's favorite events/communities!
I'm in Europe atm, there are a fuckton of communities here (not profit esque). All sizes, all disciplines, all variations. They all get on fine, even when money is involved. They usually band together, it's tough it there afterall. Like, we really can coexist, surely?
Has ZAGD been able to market games and have a significant impact on their sales or exposure? If so that's pretty rad.
If I like a game that someone has made regardless of where they choose to post it or chose to talk about it I will keep liking the game and keep following its progress.
No one can force me to stay or post where I do not want, but I'd rather put my extra energy into making a game/story or knife rather than looking for a fight.
Hope for those that are serious and passionate about game making that this does not influence/affect them negatively.
I hope the negativity can stop soon :/
I do feel the indignation of having a stranger pooping on our front door, of course. And if you're angry right now (which I understand), then I challenge you to do something about it. Make a prototype, post feedback in some threads, make some art and music, and post it.
Because, to me, that's how I define a community's success. What's our output, and how do we encourage and help each other grow? Quality > quantity any day (except maybe with sales :D).
(It will also cause the thread to move off the front page when there’s no replies.)
I suspect he keeps posting here to get us to respond negatively towards him, providing him with evidence of his opinions of us.
It seems no matter how civil or understanding we are, he has already made up his mind and nothing we say can change it.
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
.
@Julian is obviously feeling very negative towards this community, but that doesn't mean that this community needs to feel negatively towards ZAGD, nor that ZAGD as a whole feels negatively towards this community (as far as I'm aware, most of the people who have joined ZAGD barely know about MGSA).
@Julian is angry, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to be. (and the last thing we need is a rift between South African developers).
I don't see how a capitalist system is an unwelcome thing in SA? ZAGD's Julian certainly doesn't speak for the whole country. And the race of the members doesn't matter either. (Anyone is free and welcome to be a part of MGSA)
However, this narrative by ZAGD's Julian is very ironic to me, because back when he wanted me to sign up as a CSO, All the prospective ZAGD corporate members were white, and the goal of this membership was to find ways to generate profit and rules were being discussed on how the profit will be shared between the corporate members... hmmm.
This is basically spam.
"Hi Julian,
We have closed the thread "ZAGD declares WAR on MGSA" as it is in violation of our forum rules and serves no purpose beyond being inflammatory and divisive. I draw your attention to our forum rules found here: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/4108/forum-guidelines-faq
Specifically the following clause (my emphasis in bold) :
"Remain respectful of other members at all times - All posts should be professional and courteous. You have every right to disagree with your fellow community members and explain your perspective. However, you are not free to attack, degrade, insult, or otherwise belittle them or the quality of this community. All people on the forums including admins and moderators are expected to adhere to this rule."
We work on a warning system, and please consider this your first warning. A further breach of these forums rules will result in a permanent ban.
I am troubled that you have allegedly been receiving harassing messages on Facebook from some of our community members, if you feel particularly aggrieved I would ask that you send me the names of the people involved, along with the screenshots of the messages in question and we will take appropriate action if possible. Please send these either as DM to me or email them to admin@makegamessa.com.
Since joining the community you have only created posts to promote your Facebook Group, and only responded to those posts in question, which has increasingly become more antagonistic over time. I would encourage you to participate more fully in the community and make use of vast knowledge and experience that can be found with our community members. If you are located in Cape Town or Johannesburg I would encourage you to attend one of monthly meet-ups and get some face-to-face time with the local community members.
I wish you all the best with your future endeavors and look forward to see you and the Natural Studio guys at rAge this year.
In closing I remind you that you are welcome to continue posting and interacting on the forums, provided you abide by the rules that we have in place."