[prototype] Unnamed Tetris Roguelike

Tuism

Hi guys :D

UTR WINDOWS PROTOTYPE DOWNLOAD LINK: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15257303/game_dev/UTR/builds/Untitled_Tetris_Roguelike_prototype_001.zip



http://instagram.com/p/qWhYlEt1Zm/

Welcome to my Tetris Roguelike mashup! So people say (you know, like @dislekcia) that you should build Tetris to understand making games, so I did :) And straight up Tetris bored me so it... grew...

In Unnamed Tetris Roguelike (UTR) you wander around the dungeon (or is it?!) with the only tool at your disposal an endless stream of tetrominos. You will see that it is a power which is a double edged sword if you don't wield it wisely! And that's why there's a handy restart button [R] :P

I've built this initial thing to be a super condensation of the mechanics and what I've put in so far. The controls are on screen, and I've tried to make things super self-explanatory (thanks mechanical proto juice!) so I don't really want to explain things - please give it a bash and let me know:

Questions for before you play:
1. How did you find the controls? They're not your usual WASD controls, that's for sure, because the game requires a different level of "precision".
2. Did you find the concept fun?
3. Did you understand the mechanics of the game? Was it hard? Could it be easier, perhaps? How?
4. How did you find the theme? (what little there is right now... It's mostly functional really) Does it make sense to you? (given the lack of animation on some things that should, like the walk cycle) How does it look?

Question for after you play:
a. The monster is really stupid right now, but notwithstanding that I'm having trouble balancing its power against the player - mostly, right now, in the time it takes the monsters to get through blocks. It feels SUPER excessive, but it's barely enough to let a noob player go do what they need to do. How does it feel? Do you think it can be approved? How?
b. Does this feel like it could be a long form game or a short one?
c. How does it feel right now without the ability to FIGHT and defeat enemies?
d. Any other thoughts? :)



Thanks guys!

UTR WINDOWS PROTOTYPE DOWNLOAD LINK: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15257303/game_dev/UTR/builds/Untitled_Tetris_Roguelike_prototype_001.zip

PS: There are two resources in the game, but they don't do anything yet. I'm planning to make them do stuff like summon particular blocks, or upping your stats/equipment... Or buy a house. Or whatever. Dunno yet.

tbulford

Roguetris

Denzil

Really cool. This is a pretty crazy idea. You're crazy. I love it :)

1 - Why do you say it's not normal WASD? Something felt a little weird the first minute or so of playing, I guess I assumed the movement wasn't fixed to a grid, and wanted to suggest that you do this, but then I realised it is and things went more smoothly. It feels pretty WASD to me, but I had my recent struggles with WASD with Grave Days, didn't I? :)

2 - Yes, it's a neat concept. I think you can do A LOT with this in terms of level design and additional mechanics, but I'm sure you're aware of this and have ideas already. The core mechanics are original though (I think)

3 - I feel that if you could strafe it would make things A LOT easier. I often got frustrated with having to move up, and then turn (I just checked again and realized a quick tap makes you face in the direction without movement, which is a good step towards numbing my frustration). Though somehow strafing would be brilliant. Perhaps have WASD for up, down,l eft, right, and then have keys that rotate the player. Perhaps have the controls as you do now, with tapping making you face the direction, but if a quick tap did not happen (ie key press up did not happen), make the player move in the direction without rotating. But you know me, I'm weird like that (with my controls)

4 - The theme is nice overall, though I'm not a fan of the player, is he meant to be a super hero? The monster suits the game though (I wonder where you got him? :) )

I would like to make a suggestion though (obviously don't use it if you don't like it, I take no offense):
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1200066
http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/?keywords=USUAN1200067&Search=Search

I feel music and sound can turn something that feels bland into something you can play for hours (given you have solid mechanics, which I think you do)

a - I'm not really sure what the monster is meant to do. I guess I'm this noob player you were referring to though. I kinda skipped and went straight up, after panicking because I couldn't get the side wall down. Then I ran to the green thing not knowing what to expect, but then I got teleported? Not really sure what needs to be done to improve the monster. Maybe just make it faster still. And not sure if you do this, haven't checked but let him pathfind into empty gaps if it would make the path shorter.

b - Long game, short levels (10 - 15 minutes max, is this long too?)

c - I like it. Maybe in later levels add a pickup that you could have a shot at killing monsters, provided there are multiple monsters per level. But this is probably not even necessary, or maybe not even a good idea. I like it as it is. You could block the monster off with the right shapes now anyway, can't you? ( I haven't tried this, have to go to the lab soon)

d - Sounds, music, strafe :)

Tuism

@Denzil thanks for your input man! :D

I am crazy :P I think it's because I'm still much more "experimental" than "refined" with my game designs, I tend to try mash-up concepts :)


1. So yes, you realised that it's not normal WASD because there's a grace period of turning around before the move happens - so my primary goal for this was to make it work in as few keys/buttons as possible - and when you don't move (just turn and aim), you're not advancing time (monster's not moving/attacking). I could add a strafe key, but I don't reckon it's "needed" - it'll prbaboy be a nice to have for an advanced player. Maybe.

Previously it was just WASD with mouse aiming and shooting, and I removed the mouse on the input at our meetup last week to simplify. I think it's better simpler.

The next challenge for this control scheme is touch devices XD


2. I have some ideas, but I'm not really sure how much to mess with things. It's all very divergent from either genre that I've taken from: In tetris you just lose and restart if your blocks pile up, in this - I could make short-form levels with that in mind, but I don't really want to make this feel too luck-based (due to not getting the blocks you want/need) - In roguelikes there's permadeath, so there's lots of building up (leveling up, collecting loot, stuff, trophies, etc)... But a lot of those are based on stats, attack, health, etc. All of which aren't part of the game at the moment. I really like the idea of getting one-hit killed by the monster to give you a sense of forboding, but it's SO HARD to dodge it. Like SO SO HARD, the only reason that it's reasonable now is that it takes forever to get through the blocks (it can tunnel, could you tell?), which doesn't really help the whole urgency thing.

So now I'm not entirely sure if the game should go more puzzle-like with a tight death, or more rogue-like with a way to fight back, level-up, stat-up, etc. Need to experiment more I guess :/


3. So ya answered above. Would like to keep button counts down but sure why not add it and see.

4. All the art is my own :) It started as a cuter game and then I updated the main character from a sketch I did during the week, wanting to cyberpunk it up a bit. The monster I was gonna update too but it was 2am and I was like MEH LATER :P
http://instagram.com/p/qUDXfsN1VB/


Music and sound is definitely something I'll add. Again I wanted to add it but then it was 2am :P


a. Monster pathfinding would definitely be an improvement. Haven't implemented smarts yet, it basically goes for you in a beeline. Which could be a "feature" and different monsters could behave differently, but yea for now I'll get that monster improved. Pathfinding is hard, it'll probably just be slightly smarter and be able to turn corners.

But the monster gets REALLY hard if it can turn to find you :/ I think this is intrinsic to the level design too, and I'm probably gonna add one more mechanic of your blocks being able to push it back. And explosive blocks that could kill the monster.

The level is probably already too big. One of the reasons I made the level big is because I think you want empty spaces to throw trash blocks you don't wanna use - smaller spaces are much harder.


Thanks for your input! Really awesome! :D

Denzil

Glad I could help :)

If you need help in the future with pathfinding just ask. I'm not an expert at all, and you will probably find some good plugins for Unity, but I've implemented an A* heuristic about a month ago that was crazy fast. And you don't even need something that runs too fast so shortcuts can be taken to make the implementation easier.

Tuism

Unity!

So I've gone with my own advice/mantra of prototyping in Gamemaker because it's much faster (from my own perspective) to get things done. My advice/mantra/theory is that I'll move over to Unity when it reaches a critical mass, a bit of an optimal time when the time to port to Unity is minimal against the maximum chance of "I'm probably going to commit and make this a thing that's not just a prototype".

I'm not sure when I'll be at that point because I'm still noob about it all :P

Fengol

I'm having a problem placing blocks on the sides of the map...



I think there's potential for some interesting gameplay here, but I can't get past the first wall to find out.

Fengol

I think you need to be more generous and make the individual blocks continue to "fall" in the direction they're fired. It's too easy to end up with air pockets that you can't get into and can't a shape to fall into.

Denzil

Fengol said:

I think you need to be more generous and make the individual blocks continue to "fall" in the direction they're fired. It's too easy to end up with air pockets that you can't get into and can't a shape to fall into.

Isn't that what makes tetris interesting?

Tuism

@fengol yeah there are slight spacing problems with the blocks' rotation that I'd have to solve with very specific special case if else things (because of the funny shapes and pivot points and and and), I'll get to those later, but you can place those blocks if you keep rotating, trust me on this :)

And as for air pockets... The problem with everything falling all the way is that it becomes way too easy as lines basically make themselves. I've given it a try and you could basically do anything and it would work as long as first line gets made.

I feel like what would be important is the balance between these things:
1. Progression and upgrading
2. Mitigating as well as making use of the nature of random blocks
3. The length of each "part" or checkpoint so you don't get frustrated by the difficulty

It's gonna be tricky....... LEVEL DESIGN.

(I've always tried to avoid that, in case you guys haven't noticed :/)

Fengol

Yip, more prototyping is necessary.

Depending on what you want to do with the game, you could shoot "generic" coloured blocks that push and fill gaps; and special blocks that must fit correctly.

Tuism

One of the ideas I wanted to try out is for the game to be roguelike in loot - so there are equipments with different stats - but in this case the stats are more like "knockback on blocks" or "knockback on enemies" or "explodes if in a row" or whatever. But that's much harder to A) make and B) balance...

Did you try to play again? That screenshot you showed can be solved by rotating 2 times more :)

mattbenic

Got a chance to play, and again, I really love this idea :)

Questions for before you play:
1. How did you find the controls? They're not your usual WASD controls, that's for sure, because the game requires a different level of "precision".
I think the WASD controls are a move in the right direction, but I do think using space, ctrl, etc rather than T/Y/U would be good. This combination is particularly bad for me since I use an ergonomic keyboard split between T and Y, but generally it feels like modifier keys would be better. I also had the same thought as @Denzil, have a tap of one of the direction buttons orients your character in that direction, and holding moves in that direction (but doesn't change orientation).
2. Did you find the concept fun?
YES! :)
3. Did you understand the mechanics of the game? Was it hard? Could it be easier, perhaps? How?
I understood it, but then I saw your original presentation. I think the biggest thing working against understanding it easily is controls and positioning, but more on that below.
4. How did you find the theme? (what little there is right now... It's mostly functional really) Does it make sense to you? (given the lack of animation on some things that should, like the walk cycle) How does it look?
The theming of the world is nice, the player character didn't really grab me, seemed a bit mismatched. The enemy seemed a bit more fun.

Question for after you play:
a. The monster is really stupid right now, but notwithstanding that I'm having trouble balancing its power against the player - mostly, right now, in the time it takes the monsters to get through blocks. It feels SUPER excessive, but it's barely enough to let a noob player go do what they need to do. How does it feel? Do you think it can be approved? How?
I need to play a bit more to give decent feedback on this. The first enemy I faced wasn't an issue, because I was able to get into the next area well before he got through the wall, but the second one (after teleporting into the next area) was immediately in the same chamber, so basically instakill, which sucked.
b. Does this feel like it could be a long form game or a short one?
It feels like you need short levels/chambers which each have instadeath, with a limited number of deaths/restarts across an entire playthrough-allowing the restart to be at the current or previous chambers (assuming there will be some kind of resource collection in chambers that would make progression easier and so backing up one would make sense).
c. How does it feel right now without the ability to FIGHT and defeat enemies?
Good. I still think fighting enemies would take away from the overall game-except perhaps being able to stun them with blocks.
d. Any other thoughts? :)
Like Andre, I had trouble placing blocks at the edge of the screen. Right now you're lining the blocks up to his left, presumably so the even width pieces center nicely. I think what would help here is offsetting your character's movement by half a block compared to the pieces and walls, and having the pieces centered to him (based on real width, not width per block and an assumption of even block count across). Then clamp their movement at the edges. This way if you move him all the way to any edge, the piece will be able to be placed in the outermost gap. It'll also make more sense visually to have them always centered relative to him.

Tuism

mattbenic said:

Got a chance to play, and again, I really love this idea :)

Questions for before you play:
1. How did you find the controls? They're not your usual WASD controls, that's for sure, because the game requires a different level of "precision".
I think the WASD controls are a move in the right direction, but I do think using space, ctrl, etc rather than T/Y/U would be good. This combination is particularly bad for me since I use an ergonomic keyboard split between T and Y, but generally it feels like modifier keys would be better. I also had the same thought as @Denzil, have a tap of one of the direction buttons orients your character in that direction, and holding moves in that direction (but doesn't change orientation).

I didn't understand that from what @Denzil was saying, but that's a pretty good idea! Holding makes you move without turning, tapping makes you turn. Gotta figure out how to implement that but indeed it sounds logically good :)

2. Did you find the concept fun?
YES! :)
3. Did you understand the mechanics of the game? Was it hard? Could it be easier, perhaps? How?
I understood it, but then I saw your original presentation. I think the biggest thing working against understanding it easily is controls and positioning, but more on that below.
4. How did you find the theme? (what little there is right now... It's mostly functional really) Does it make sense to you? (given the lack of animation on some things that should, like the walk cycle) How does it look?
The theming of the world is nice, the player character didn't really grab me, seemed a bit mismatched. The enemy seemed a bit more fun.

Question for after you play:
a. The monster is really stupid right now, but notwithstanding that I'm having trouble balancing its power against the player - mostly, right now, in the time it takes the monsters to get through blocks. It feels SUPER excessive, but it's barely enough to let a noob player go do what they need to do. How does it feel? Do you think it can be approved? How?
I need to play a bit more to give decent feedback on this. The first enemy I faced wasn't an issue, because I was able to get into the next area well before he got through the wall, but the second one (after teleporting into the next area) was immediately in the same chamber, so basically instakill, which sucked.

Those guys weren't suppose to make it out of their area before you got there, but I guess I didn't get that "AI" right yet XD The first one is never an issue UNLESS you tried to get the creds on the left, then it gets tricky. Did you try to get the creds on the left?

b. Does this feel like it could be a long form game or a short one?
It feels like you need short levels/chambers which each have instadeath, with a limited number of deaths/restarts across an entire playthrough-allowing the restart to be at the current or previous chambers (assuming there will be some kind of resource collection in chambers that would make progression easier and so backing up one would make sense).

Yeah that's also how I saw it, though I want to make it unforgiving like 868hack and pretty much make it a roguelike. But I'm not seeing exactly how to balance the random nature of the blocks against long-form instadeath... Will see.

c. How does it feel right now without the ability to FIGHT and defeat enemies?
Good. I still think fighting enemies would take away from the overall game-except perhaps being able to stun them with blocks.

Yeah I'm going to try pushback. Stunning could work too.

d. Any other thoughts? :)
Like Andre, I had trouble placing blocks at the edge of the screen. Right now you're lining the blocks up to his left, presumably so the even width pieces center nicely. I think what would help here is offsetting your character's movement by half a block compared to the pieces and walls, and having the pieces centered to him (based on real width, not width per block and an assumption of even block count across). Then clamp their movement at the edges. This way if you move him all the way to any edge, the piece will be able to be placed in the outermost gap. It'll also make more sense visually to have them always centered relative to him.

What do you mean movement by half a block? As in, the character stands on the edges of blocks and not centred on the blocks? Won't that mean you can't go through corridors of single space width?

Right now placing on the edges is definitely doable, it just requires two extra rotations, but yes it's not ideal. Again, I can solve the straight blocks orientation by doing some if/else, and will do that as soon as I have time to work on this. Clamping to edges is a good idea, but again will require more thought about implementation... Clamping seems hard to think over... :/

The tricky thing right now is that I can't "centre" 2-wide blocks to the player character, whereas 3-side blocks work just fine.

mattbenic

So are you currently doing the left version or the right version from your images?
I thought you were doing the right, that's what it felt like. And it probably should be the left. Again, you'll run into the problem with even width pieces there though.

Maybe it needs to adjust bast on movement. If the character moves to the left, offset even pieces to the right by one column. If they move to the right, offet to the left. Yeah would be better with art, but I can't art :P At least not right now.. work and other such inconveniences ;)

Tuism

I'm doing the left version, the right side, so er, 2nd from the left. Yes so the left version. The only reason the straight block isn't centred sometimes is because it rotates not around its centre but around a corner. I'll just put in some exceptions and it'll sort itself out.

Based on movement... sounds super complicated, and could be complex behaviour that's harder to understand than what there is now :P From what I can understand and see, you guys are only having trouble with the straight block on the edge, because you're expecting it to be right in front of you, but it's offset by a bit, which is the exception rather than the norm, which I can fix with exceptions and will :)

So for that I'll put in the exception when I can XD Time time time...