WC#1 : French Ship by Rigormortis

Rigormortis

This is probably a very simplistic one and copies a lot of other stories I've seen/heard before but here it is anyway.

I made it based off [url = http://www.makegamessa.com/discussion/2065/prototype-french-ship-week-2-of-ogaw#Item_1]this prototype(French Ship)[/url].

Please give me any feedback you can. I don't really identify as a writer, but I do love stories and storytelling. So I would love to improve on that in any way I can. I like the idea of having strong motivations for characters. In this case I kept it fairly short(as prescribed :P) but it would be awesome if I could get some focused feedback on my characters.

Here's to reading more awesome stories! :)

Edit: I have updated the doc trying to implement some of the feedback I got already. :) If you did read it before, please download V2 and let me know what you think. I tried to do a non dialogue scene at the end of the conversation and would love to get some feedback on that.

konman

Sounds compelling. A mother, her daughter. Wartime...

Now for the critique... ;)

"but her mother is keeping her locked up in there home." - should be "their". Slight grammer I know, but this is about writing?
"and you have faint at the sight of blood. It's simply ridiculous." - "have faint"? maybe it should read... "you faint"? No?

Also a mom calling her daughter ridiculous. Mmmh, I don't think so, she carried her for 9 months before popping her out in excruciating pain... She has some vested interest here in seeing her succeed in all her goals? Why is she so harsh?

Also the term "my dear" is over used, especially from such an uncaring mom. :)

my 2 cents, hope I don't offend :)

brondin

I have to agree with @konman about the grammar. This could benefit from some proofreading and editing. Apart from the grammatical errors pointed out already, fixing up the punctuation and formatting of the dialogue would make the script sample a lot easier to read and parse.

However, I didn't find Jacqueline uncaring. She probably could've handled the conversation in a gentler, more diplomatic way instead of being so dismissive, but she has a point. Gabrielle is, if her mother is to be believed, not cut out for the role of a freedom fighter. Her participation in that movement would likely put her (and others) in grave danger. Well, even greater danger than they would've been in without someone who is afraid of guns and faints at the sight of blood. I'm sure that Jacqueline is supportive of her daughter's goals, just not the ones that involve being murdered by Nazis as a potential outcome. The point about the overuse of 'my dear' is a good one though, but for stylistic purposes more so than being inconsistent with the character's personality.

On a related note: In the game, the protagonist is obviously fairly capable, at least in terms of her ability to jump from rooftop to rooftop. As we've already established, Gabrielle wouldn't be able to handle that situation. That sort of disjuncture just leads to ludonarrative dissonance. Unless this is is a prologue of sorts, in which case, pretend I didn't mention it :P

Lastly, hurrah for both principal characters being women! :D

Rigormortis

Thanks for the feedback peoples. I appreciate it. :) I haven't had time to implement any of this, but I'll respond for now and hopefully get some changes done tonight some time.

konman said:

my 2 cents, hope I don't offend :)

I'm offended that you think you offended me. :P

The grammer/spelling issue is a good catch. I tend to type there/their and other similar things on muscle memory and it usually comes out as the one I'm used to type :/ I'm not sure were the "have faint" came in.

Also a mom calling her daughter ridiculous.

Jacqueline isn't actually calling Gabrielle ridiculous here. It's more the fact that she thinks she can make a difference even though(according to Jacqueline) she has no way to do that. I'll look at rewriting this somehow that it makes that clearer though.

Also the term "my dear" is over used

I'm sorry about this. :D My vocabulary is sometimes(read always) a bit lacking.

especially from such an uncaring mom.

If you think she is uncaring I got half of it right. The idea is to convince Gabrielle that Jacqueline is uncaring but at the same time convincing the reader(you) that she is. So I need to work on the second part.

@brondin, I agree that I need to proofread and edit this...this is also of why I'm posting it here. :) the more people that can proofread with me the better. I'm prototyping this writing thing :P

Your second paragraph is actually mostly what I wanted to convey through that conversation. Jacqueline is dismissive and handles the conversation badly because she doesn't actually know how to protect her child. She is trying(desperately) to convince Gabrielle to stay away from the war because she wants to protect here. She is knowingly, but reluctantly, trying to break down Gabrielle's confidence in order to keep her safe. Can you explain what made you realize that she is actually trying to protect her daughter and what could highlight the internal conflict some more?

In the game, the protagonist is obviously fairly capable, at least in terms of her ability to jump from rooftop to rooftop. As we've already established, Gabrielle wouldn't be able to handle that situation. That sort of disjuncture just leads to ludonarrative dissonance.

I find it interesting that after seeing the character being capable you say we "established" that she isn't. I (think I) understand what you are saying, but in my mind Jacqueline assumes(asserts) that her daughter is incapable, it is never established that Gabrielle is incapable of doing the things her mother says. In fact, having the character shown as capable through gameplay enforces the idea for me that her mother is mistaken and overprotective. Am I too close to the characters that I'm not explaining it properly?

Again thanks for the feedback guys, looking forward to some more. :)

PS. I can see how ALL these threads are going to be big walls of text. :P

brondin

I'm glad that the feedback is at least somewhat useful to you, @Rigormortis :) Let's have a look at some of your responses and questions:

Can you explain what made you realize that she is actually trying to protect her daughter[?]

Nazis, basically. It's not like Jacqueline is being an unreasonable asshat about this. Gabrielle's goal isn't to become an engineer or to go to art school, it's to expose herself to tremendous danger. Her mother being supportive of this plan would require that she, in some sense, conveys the sentiment, "you want to go out and fight one of the most awful groups of humans ever to appear on the planet? The ones who, if they capture you, will brutally execute you if they're in a really good mood? Have fun, sweetie!"

[W]hat could highlight the internal conflict some more?

Okay, so that last bit was a bit hyperbolic. There is some middle ground between "go to your room," and "enjoy getting killed, bro." Maybe lessen Jacqueline's privileged disinterest and make it more obvious that she understands the political situation and its real world consequences. That way we can see that she feels that fighting the Reich is in some sense the right thing to do, and that she does have a moral obligation, but she doesn't want to potentially lose someone that she cares for.

It is never established that Gabrielle is incapable of doing the things her mother says.

I see what you mean, but there's still a disjuncture between the game and the treatment. Or at the very least, the treatment doesn't give us sufficient reason to view that reading of the characters as the most likely one. When Jacqueline asks what difference Gabrielle might make in the war and then lists her daughter's various supposed inadequacies, Gabrielle's response isn't, "I'm basically Spider-Man! I can parkour for the rebels!" it's "let's throw money at the problem!" Which is why I think I read it as a prologue, because Gabrielle doesn't seem to know of her capabilities either.

Am I too close to the characters that I'm not explaining it properly?

I think that's a general problem with writing, whether it's fiction or academic argumentation. You just need to make sure that what's in the text naturally drives the reader's understanding towards one that is as close as possible to how you see things in your head :)

I hope this helps!

Rigormortis

I finally got around to implementing some of the changes(new version in original post). I'm not sure if I managed to capture what I wanted here though, but it does seem to be a step in a different direction at least. :P I would really like some feedback on the "non-dialogue" paragraph I included this time.

Thanks for reading anyway. :)

konman

Oh man that was AWESOME, You provided context by introducing the CHARACTERS and their personalities, leaving NO room for incorrect interpretation, EXCELLENT! The script example now makes sense 100% to me. Wow I am very impressed... I fear for this girl now, who's so brave, her life can blow away in the wind as easily as that bellowing curtain... WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

PS: If she turned the key COUNTER-CLOCKWISE, she unlocked the door, NOT locked... not sure if this is intended? Makes sense for her to turn key clockwise to lock? So her mother is delayed in detecting her leaving? Anyways, just a minor detail... :)

Rigormortis

@konman, thanks for giving it another read and the kind words. :) I'm glad that it makes more sense now.

To be honest I didn't really think through which way she should turn the key, which is important. I think that when the story is grounded in the real world it should act and behave like stuff in the real world would. Nice catch ;)

To know what happens next you have to play the game :P

PS. I can't seem to download the file, is it still available for other people?