Reign: Steel Echoes [ALPHA v0.10]
Hi Guys
Now that the prototyping phase has been completed I have taken all the feedback (thanks guys!) and completely reworked the game from the ground up.
There's obviously still a lot of placeholder art, and the default level is taken straight from the prototype. And yes - it's not really a game yet, and balancing is not even on the radar at the moment, but it's steadily on its way ;)
Any feedback, as always, are very welcome!
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ALPHA: v0.10 (2014/04/13)
Please download the Standalone version (135MB RAR) if you want check it out and provide feedback :)
Change log:
- All scripts and vehicle components have been re-done from the ground up - there are several changes to how vehicles behaves (no more shutdown, reduced and simplified weapon & attachment mechanics, etc.)
- New and improved upgrade/purchase mechanics - gone is the double sided and confusing UI. I have decided on a completely different design language for this:
- Added 2 more vehicles - truck and hovercraft - they're ugly as hell, but should give some feel as to where the gameplay is headed. (Still gathering some courage to start with the mech-like walker vehicles... :P )
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Instructions
- Choose a battlefield & join a faction in single player mode.
- Pick a vehicle type (tracked, wheeled, hover) and kit it out.
- Spawn into the level and shoot at the "AI" opponent to get credits and buy more stuff.
Notes:
- Use WASD for movement
- Use mouse to aim, and left mouse for primary weapons, and right mouse for secondary weapons
- Everything uses energy - movement as well as weapons
- Help is indicated on screen (just basic stuff copied from the prototype at the moment)
- Esc exits via dropship, and Backspace exits via suicide (losing vehicle)
Task list:
- Finish single player game mode
- Add Mech-type vehicle support
- Multiplayer (looking at photon cloud at the moment)
- Facebook/Steam integration
- Art & Story - 3 Systems, 6 Planets, 12 races with 5+ vehicles & unique dropships each.
-------------------------------
Thanks again to all for helping to make this a reality - go SA!
Now that the prototyping phase has been completed I have taken all the feedback (thanks guys!) and completely reworked the game from the ground up.
There's obviously still a lot of placeholder art, and the default level is taken straight from the prototype. And yes - it's not really a game yet, and balancing is not even on the radar at the moment, but it's steadily on its way ;)
Any feedback, as always, are very welcome!
-------------------------------
ALPHA: v0.10 (2014/04/13)
Please download the Standalone version (135MB RAR) if you want check it out and provide feedback :)
Change log:
- All scripts and vehicle components have been re-done from the ground up - there are several changes to how vehicles behaves (no more shutdown, reduced and simplified weapon & attachment mechanics, etc.)
- New and improved upgrade/purchase mechanics - gone is the double sided and confusing UI. I have decided on a completely different design language for this:
- Added 2 more vehicles - truck and hovercraft - they're ugly as hell, but should give some feel as to where the gameplay is headed. (Still gathering some courage to start with the mech-like walker vehicles... :P )
-------------------------------
Instructions
- Choose a battlefield & join a faction in single player mode.
- Pick a vehicle type (tracked, wheeled, hover) and kit it out.
- Spawn into the level and shoot at the "AI" opponent to get credits and buy more stuff.
Notes:
- Use WASD for movement
- Use mouse to aim, and left mouse for primary weapons, and right mouse for secondary weapons
- Everything uses energy - movement as well as weapons
- Help is indicated on screen (just basic stuff copied from the prototype at the moment)
- Esc exits via dropship, and Backspace exits via suicide (losing vehicle)
Task list:
- Finish single player game mode
- Add Mech-type vehicle support
- Multiplayer (looking at photon cloud at the moment)
- Facebook/Steam integration
- Art & Story - 3 Systems, 6 Planets, 12 races with 5+ vehicles & unique dropships each.
-------------------------------
Thanks again to all for helping to make this a reality - go SA!
steelechoes_1.png
579 x 395 - 196K
steelechoes_2.png
579 x 395 - 153K
steelechoes_3.png
1024 x 571 - 716K
Comments
I managed to navigate through the menus to connect to some sort of game (that text needs to be easier to read, far too low contrast in most of your menus). I couldn't figure out how to add "stuff" to my tank thing. I upgraded a couple of slots because those had simple buttons, but I couldn't add assault weapon 01 or whatever to my tank no matter what I did... This needs instructions and step-by-step menu flow.
Then when I launched the tank, I went up the ramp out of what I thought was my base, up ramp = off to battle, yay! Turned right, BIG RED RETURN TO BATTLEFIELD TEXT AAAH! Okay, let's go left then, through that obvious gate thing, RETURN TO BATTLEFIELD AAAAH! Where's the battlefield then? Why can't I see the boundaries? Why can't I shoot. What are the keys besides WASD and Q to turn off your tank (eh?)?
So... Instructions? Even just written ones? Otherwise nobody's going to be able to even test this for you. Is this mulitplayer? Do I need other people to test with me? Am confuse :(
P.S. There was no obvious way to get out of chat mode once I got into it while outfitting my tank with more slots to not put weapons in. I managed to escape it in the end by hitting the back menu and re-entering the room/game/thing. That gave me my ineffectual tank options back :)
-edit-
Okay, after clicking around a lot more I found out that the dollar sign buys stuff when a price is displayed. That should behave (and look) like a button a lot more. So I put things on my tank and played with the connect-disconnect stuff. Then I launched and actually saw an enemy. Hunting for keys to press gave me some sort of onscreen guide (was that H? Did I push H to get that?) and clicking fired things. After blowing up the random enemy a couple of times, I started just holding down fire to see what happened when the spider under my tank's health bars got low. I figured out that one must have been battery (the blue one) after the tank turned itself off when that got low. Then the tank would turn itself on again, but the battery would deplete at the same rate as though I was firing (even though nothing was actually firing) and the tank would turn off again. I couldn't break out of this loop, but I could fire when the tank was powered up.
So, as far as gameplay goes, I dunno. I'm not sure that your damage vs movement is actually balanced very well. You can deal a ton of damage forwards (and maybe other weapons have other fire cones) but you can't turn very fast and the tanks are pretty slow. So any 1on1 is going to tend towards a creeping battle to line up your tank with your enemy's when they have a bad angle. Moving slower while lining up will provide an aim advantage, everyone will turn off their sight thingies and it'll turn into long shot-damage dumps. Then again, I have no idea what that plays like because the enemy didn't do anything at all besides die, so all I have to go on is the speed that they died and the speed I moved at.
There's no actual multiplayer yet so the join menus are just fake, the map is just the tiny section, and yes there has also been no balancing - all weapons has the same damage and rates of fire and energy use are just arbitrary so some imagination is required - it's a prototype, right?
The idea is that you would have to manage your energy use carefully in battles - more weapons will use more energy etc. So the game might become slow and tactical - which is good because it's not supposed to be arcade-ish. Another idea is that you can call a dropship at any time to get out of the game without losing your life - also to be used tactically, because you're a sitting duck while it lands.
I'm curious - when using shift while moving (boost), did you see a difference in speed, or is the movement still feeling slow? Bear in mind these are gigantic tanks - their scale relative to the buildings are accurate - so they should feel a little heavy.
Also - did you use the mouse to aim and shoot? Your last comments leads me to think that you just used the keyboard.
-Edit: oh, and just to explain the shutdown loop -> if all of the weapons are charging at the same time they all take energy (you can shut down each platform using 1-5 keys - more management of energy and not yet balanced).
-Edit 2: Maybe I should just add that this game is aimed at a non-casual audience that should already be somewhat experienced in this type of game (multiplayer FPS type players) - do you still think I need to treat the UI to additional help-type info and make the instructions more visible - I'm asking, because many AAA today do not contain instructions like that anymore... just wondering if it is really needed, or if it will just add clutter. You're saying that the menus need more contrast - would it be possible to post a screenshot of how the menu renders on your side - it is very well defined on my side, but it may be broken when you run it?
Will try it out later, didn't have time this weekend. This past short, short weekend :P
The items have a lot of alpha making me think they're not available at first. As a 'somewhat experienced' player, things that look grayed out make me think that they're not available and have to be unlocked in some sort of tech tree before I can get them.
I'd remove the buy icons from the tank view and just keep them in the left pane to keep things consistent. Or, alternatively make it easier to buy things right there via context sensitive drop-downs if I click on an empty box. For example, clicking on a weapon block shows me a context menu of weapons I can buy (or already own) that I can choose for that slot.
IMO:
1. Yes, definitely. For a prototype it looks great.
2. Have a single-player survival mode, with half-decent AI and I'd say it's ready for public consumption (beta?) to garner interest and PR. The major attraction would be full multiplayer though, and I'm wondering if maybe it would be better to go this route initially and forego single-player altogether (saving on time to build AI).
I'd say this is more engine demo than prototype, too much focus on the functionality for graphics and UI and stuff, not enough game. Mouse movement didn't do anything. The webplayer game took control of the mouse, so I didn't have a cursor while the game had focus, but the turret didn't turn at all. I was using the mouse buttons to shoot. This was not obvious at all. I couldn't tell what was going on so it seemed like a bug. I used to play a team-based tactical tank arena combat thing called Tanarus. It was hardcore as hell, one of Sony's first online titles when people were still trying to figure out how online gameplay even worked. It was brilliant, all the little things that went into how that game worked and the systems impact of building your own tank from the batteries up. One of the biggest things they had in there that reminds me of this (although Tanarus was 3D, so verticality of tank shot aiming was a definite thing in it) is the energy limitations:
Each tank chassis had different reactor options (yes, reactors, bigness) and you had to manage that power output. When you were in friendly areas of the map, you had an energy boost, neutral had no boost and enemy areas had a drain. This meant that tactical considerations like how long you made a fight drag on and where it started vs ended were really interesting. Their damage model was also based around shields and hull having different stopping profiles, lasers were great against shields but terrible vs hulls, etc. Heat was also a resource they were trying to force you to deal with, mechwarrior was pretty recent ;)
They had some pretty in-depth tutorial missions that explained all this to you, but the biggest thing they did that was brilliant was that you could still move your tank while at an energy zero point, it just sounded different and was horribly slow, but you could still limp away. That sound was a beacon on the battlefield though, put a huge target on you, but you could still do SOMETHING to get away from your attackers. That let you power-down weapons while managing shields, etc.
A thing you're always going to have to deal with in this "big fighting platform" stuff is simply the slow munchkin problem. Mechwarrior tends to suffer from this pretty badly: Yeah, you can circle around an enemy if you want to and blat them with munitions, but it's far more effective just to spike a huge chunk of damage their way and make sure you hit them while they miss you. This is always a peak in the movement vs damage graphs, given that moving something "that heavy" is slow and cumbersome. Japanese mechs don't have the same issue because they focus on maneuverability so much. (That's almost assuredly a design response to melee one-hit-kill weapons being so culturally prevalent, but yeah).
@DrDeth: the context menu for already owned attachments sounds like a great idea. I'm still leaning towards keeping both interfaces at the moment though, because the center one is aimed at speed, while the left one is aimed at detail and I think different users will use them for different reasons... I think more rounded UI artwork at some point will definitely improve the experience a little as well.
@dislekcia: I'll need to digest this a little bit and find a solution to some of the questions raised. You have a point about the gameplay - I told you before, this is the point where my games usually end :P - I think I have most of the core stuff down pat (even the heat management, powering down weapons, etc.), but I will definitely need to add some single player mode to make this a bit more of a game instead of just a "tech demo"... the multiplayer is just way too much investment for now. As for the web player - I always knew that I would've had to abandon it for pure standalone at some point, and it seems that time has almost arrived - just wish I knew why the mouse did not work on your side because it worked on all the other platforms I tested o.O
All in all, I want to be really careful not to bite off too much - I'd rather miss a feature or two than not complete the game at all... I think I need to translate my vision and design choices a little better, though. What I take from the feedback so far is (1) gameplay is a huge must - not just the "feel" of it (2) User interface and features not self explanatory enough.
The first issue I had, and it seems that the other guys had a similar problem, is that the UI during pre-battle when you are constructing your tank is way too confusing for what you're meant to be doing. It took me a while to realise which slot were my basic primary weapons and which were my more expensive advanced weapons.
The text is quite hard to read. The choice of font, for example the server names when choosing a server and description of upgrades, should probably be changed to something less compact and a bit more bold to make it easier to read.
I recommend simplifying things greatly with text that's easier to read and a layout that makes it clear and easy to identify what your doing. I do like the idea of pimping your tank before you head out to kill things though.
The selection of the LZ should also probably have it's own step and not take up space on the customization window to take away more of the clutter.
In terms of the gameplay I feel like there's lots of potential. I did get stuck a few times if I drove into a building and couldn't reverse. I like the weapon effect variations. I can't comment too much cause I can't play against any AI or another person yet to really get a feel for hows it's gonna play out. the controls are easy, the tank does turn quite slowly, which would be okay if it weren't for such a small map. But I can definitely imagine an epic battle in an awesome open arena.
Being a visual person and less technical I just think most of the UI needs to be simplified especially if you are wanting to have a fairly complicated upgrading system. Otherwise it looks very pretty and I would definitely encourage you to go on with this project :)
So to echo everyone else's input: The interface is super confusing. What InQbus said is pretty spot on, and I'm gonna add that the way the interface flows is very counter-intuitive - by flow I mean - I expect to move from one part of the interface to another as I select and build stuff, but the selection right now is pretty much all over the place - centre, left, down, centre, left, right, etc. There's no flow, and because of that I don't know where to look unless I make a really conscious effort to figure it out, and that means reading, and there's tons to read, and the text is difficult to read (cos font choice).
Instead of cramming everything into one screen it could be beneficial to do some kind of stepped build - choose one thing, select next, choose one thing, next, etc. The complexity of the actual system is also not easy to engage with - first build a platform, then buy the gun to go on it, oh and you can upgrade the platform too, oh and you have to buy this and that before you can buy that platform. All of that is extremely complex and not communicated adequately (what do I have to buy to get to that platform? Why do I want that platform? What the heck is a platform? Where are the guns?)
Oh and another thing is you could think about already involving the player in the number control scheme during gameplay - like loading bay 1,2,3,4,5 which corresponds to the same numbers during the game for on/offlining.
And then into the gameplay - I don't like tank controls. In general, they don't work that great because they lack nuance. I said this with another prototype I saw earlier too - if you're turning in a circle you'll forever turn in that circle - it makes movement dead and predictable, which I guess could be desirable if what you're trying to do is create moving targets for players to shoot, but isn't desirable if you want to give players a sense of agency. Plus the environment you've placed the tanks in is super confined and getting stuck is just way too common for fun. With the previous game, I suggested making the movement more nuanced - like handbrake turns, skids, etc. (I see there's a "dash" with shift) More movement options makes the game feel more alive and give the player the feeling like they are in control.
Then the mouse turning controls... They are ok if you never turn your tank, but if you're turning the tank, the mouse controls become a bit of a crack pot shooting exercise. It feels broken, but I know it's just plain damn hard. I don't know how to improve it but I feel like if I can't manoeuvre my tank while aiming it again takes away from my sense of control.
If I were to suggest something to solve the control issues I'd say use mechs instead of tanks, as they can go in 4 directions and aim independently from walking, etc, though of course mechs are more expected these days. Tanks are just meh to control, unless you can really hit that perfectly nuanced and responsive balanced control scheme. I don't know how :P
The shutdown/engage thing... I get you're trying to do something like FTL where if you shut down certain systems the other systems charge faster, right? It's kinda hard to tell what's what, and again that's an interface thing. Doesn't help that nothing does anything... So again, I feel like you should be prototyping gameplay rather than prettiness :)
But yeah, is there potential? As it is now it's a shell for something to get into. A pretty shell. I'd like to see it filled with gameplay before I make any suggestions either way...
I hope that helped! I really think what you got there is really good and pretty, it just needs a reason for being!
This also does not fix the flow problem though... I'll have to think a bit about it a bit more...
Edit: I like that you're challenging my approach - this could only result in something better :)
Agree with the comments about the menu being a bit confusing around equiping your tank. As a new player I don't want to have to configure my tank. For my first game I just want to hop into the game and ride around and blow something up. I cannot do that without having to configure the tank. I tried twice and could not fire a single shot even after having thought that i successfully equiped the tank.
I suggest having a default loadout and get the first-time player to see pretty explosions as quickly as possible. Then after that you'll have their interested, they could slowly start exploring outfitting their tank etc
I would also like to see use of dynamic light and shadows in the game if possible. I think it would compliment a game of this type.
I like the transitions between menu and game and the soundFx sound good.
I'll be watching your progress and eagerly await future updates. Keep it up :)
@drdeth: I've implemented your damn aim mechanic and it works pretty well :p had to rework some things and will have to rebuild the hud though - but I like it. Will have an update by Sunday with some additional changes.
Prototyping like this is new to me - the thing about the way I do dev is that I iterate everything at the same pace and I don't like rework - it's not very often that I would build out one feature ahead of the others, so that's probably why there's lots of almost complete mechanics but no gameplay yet - but I'll get there...
I really feel that prototyping should be getting to the gameplay (mechanics are a path to the gameplay, they don't offer gameplay if they aren't populated with numbers and variation, like those weapons you've got on tanks, they do nothing and therefore has no bearing on gameplay) rather than getting to "a complete game".
An analogy is drawing - I used to (and a lot of people do) do a drawing from top to bottom - finish the head, do the neck, shoulders, etc etc. Then drawing is done. But when I do that often the drawing doesn't fit on the paper I need it to, or proportions go off because I didn't consider something or whatever. Then all those detailing I did was effectively wasted. Nowadays I sketch the whole thing out before going into detail, and anything I "waste" would be no more than a few outlines rather than hours of detail.
Anyway it does look mighty impressive, I just really wanna see gameplay XD
@FanieG, @Konman, @DrDeth, @Tuism, @InQbus, @Dislekcia - I have made several adjustments based on the feedback you guys provided.
If you're interested, bored, or just feel like checking it out - here's the latest standalone version :)
Let me know if this is an improvement and feel free to make any suggestions.
Thanks a mill!
(if you specifically need a web build let me know and I'll upload one as well)
Well done dude, I love the changes. I was in the game in no time and blasting away at a hanger, then suddenly an enemy tank appeared on the horizon and started firing at me. How dare they! I retaliated with impunity and my vengeance was swift! Yeah! (Okay, I died)
Wow man, I really love the improvements you made. The controls feel nice and responsive as well. All in such a short space of time. Do you sleep? :D
Will give the prototype a closer look when I get more time.
latest version
You guys have really helped me a lot in deciding if this is worth doing and also which direction I need to take further. The prototype phase is now over - I have scrapped the build and have already started to rebuild almost everything from the ground up in a new project.
Some of the assets/basics will remain the same for the alpha, but based on all the suggestions so far I have completely reworked the buy/upgrade, energy/heat, and weapon mechanics - so hopefully it will be a little bit more fun.
I'm still aiming to have a multiplayer build ready for rAge - touch wood :)
Thanks again!
I have uploaded a completely reworked version of this game, and if anyone is interested please download the standalone version (135MB RAR) if you want check it out and provide feedback :)
@DrDeth, @dislekcia, @InQbus, @konman, @FanieG, @tuism: there's some major changes made directly from your specific feedback and suggestions - please let me know what you think about it. Please let me know if the "setup" UI is a bit more intuitive this way - I hope it is a bit less confusing this time.
@tuism, You have also mentioned that the tank mechanic is a bit lame, so I have added more vehicles (not a mech yet, but soon) - let me know if this adds a little more "nuance" to the driving :)
Anyway. loved the new vehicles. The hovercraft especially felt good. Think you nailed the way a hovercraft would actually behave. The truck could be a little bit more responsive. At the moment it feels too much like the tank, which is much heavier. Needs some tweaking to get it more half way between the hovercraft and the tank. Reverse on all of the vehicles could be faster too. Liked the trail that the vehicles left. Who did that art for you? The player's weapons needs to be stronger. It would be nice to be able to kill pietie a bit easier :)
Also, on the default resolution that the game started on, the edges were cut off, so I could not see all the items on the menus. Would really like to play this multiplayer, as it is clear that this is where this game is going to shine. That being said, I think the single player game will be important too. The UI is much clearer, but the end product will definetly need a tutorial mission (menus too).
Can't wait for the next update.
I'll see if I can get some better balance for the "truck" vehicle, but there will be several vehicles of each type at some point, and some tanks will be more nimble than trucks, and even hover craft - it's more about the type if maneuvering you get, and the choice will be some kind of trade-off between speed, agility, utility, and firepower.
All the ugly art is mine (UI, effects and vehicles), and the pretty art is from the asset store (setup space ship room thingie and the level assets), but these are just for easy prototyping - I'll probably start creating something better once I'm ready to call this a proper alpha - this is also when the identity of the world and it's history will start to get fleshed out. Unfortunately art is the most expensive in terms of time, so I have not spent much time on it yet.
I probably should mention that the game is built for wide screen resolutions 16:9 & 16:10 - unfortunately I could not find a quick way to limit that in the startup screen.
Thanks again for this, really appreciate the input. The next update will probably not be within a few weeks, as I want to actually provide proper single player gameplay, and some more vehicle & weapon options before the next release.