What's happening between MSSA and LazyGamer?
I've found out about the story too late and now the articles have been removed.
Who knows what's happening between Mind Sports South Africa (MSSA) and LazyGamer?
The reason I ask is, I've met some of the MSSA people at various game dev events at Wits.
Who knows what's happening between Mind Sports South Africa (MSSA) and LazyGamer?
The reason I ask is, I've met some of the MSSA people at various game dev events at Wits.
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Webster has had an urgent injunction brought against Lazygamer to have the offending posts removed as well as any comments and any mention of it on Social Media. LG will be appealing the injunction in early March.
That makes *so* much more sense now.
It looks like the standards that let Lazygamer squeak by as a gaming site might not be up to scratch in more serious writing endeavors. Which is something that a few of us have been trying to point out for a while now ;)
As a writer myself, doing that was pointless - all it did was drop the tone of the article from factual reporting (with damning evidence) to an opinion-based smear piece. And because it was done so poorly, it opened the door for this court stuff. So now people are all talking about "how the MSSA and Lazygamer are at each other's throats" instead of rightly skewering Webster for immoral behavior and demanding that the MSSA be barred from representing electronic gaming entirely.
Opportunity lost :(
@Fengol: The MSSA president's response is to questions that were asked in the comments of the interview he did with Mweb's Gamezone. It's rather disappointing that he said he'd respond to questions from the comments and then when loads get asked he basically says he's too busy to answer all of them and the others are bullshit questions that he'll be taking action against anyway. We need to discredit the MSSA as much as possible, the problem is that we keep running up against the "game journalism boundary" of kak reporting.
http://www.mweb.co.za/games/ViewNewsArticle/tabid/2549/Article/11742/Mind-Sports-South-Africa-Where-to-from-here.aspx
@Rigormortis From what I recall, the MSSA has a lot of anti-competitive policies and actively tries to monopolize the cyber-athlete scene in South Africa to the detriment of SA's cyber-athletes while making a living off of them. (and fining them when cyber-athletes don't behave the way MSSA want, and charging R500 fees to lodge complaints)
[Edit: I think @Dislekcia gave a way more accurate description]
MSSA used to just cover figure gaming (realistic wargames, no Warhammer isn't part of it) and boardgames (special focus on traditional games), but in the early 2000s it somehow got the mandate to cover video games as well. At the time they didn't do anything with this, mainly because everyone who was involved in the scene laughed at them and saw it as an obvious land grab. Interestingly enough, the boardgame element doesn't cover stuff like Chess, because that has its own association.
The MSSA has always charged membership fees. The speculation is that it needs those fees to support itself and/or provide pay to the people running it, unfortunately they've never provided audited financial details for anyone to confirm or deny this. The same man, Colin Webster, has been in charge of the MSSA for tens of years, only stepping down as president recently. He is now general secretary of the MSSA, a position which did not exist previously.
The MSSA is structured in a way that means that eSports cannot actually change much of the shape of the organisation - each of its 3 focus areas are equal votes, irrespective of how many members each area has. So even 500 eSports members couldn't establish a majority vote on anything if the other two areas (figure and board gaming) vote differently with their 20 or so members.
The MSSA has run competitions incredibly poorly in the past, not listening to active player communities, focusing on eSports associations overseas that are not taken seriously anywhere (like the IESF) and generally changing rules and making amateur mistakes that should not be made. The MSSA both consistently ignores offers to help it run better competitions, leagues and other events, as well as constantly hounding organisations that run good competitions with weird attacks based on not being able to "legitimately" send people overseas as SA gamers, even though nobody is claiming accreditation to do that.
TLDR: It's a predatory, bullshit organisation that forces members to pay annual fees to participate in badly-run tournaments that offer little to no benefit and actively exclude the top competitors. It is structured in a way to ensure that eSports remain disenfranchised within the organisation to ensure that people who don't know anything about eSports remain in charge. Exposing the corruption within the MSSA is a necessary step to getting the organisation's mandate to control eSports taken away so that the local community can govern itself.
I'm not sure that this is something that MGSA should tackle, but how would one go about wresting control of eGames from them? Can it even be done?
I don't play competitively anymore, and the local gaming scene can be pretty horribly toxic sometimes (that's a thing we're still dealing with), but it's worth bringing this stuff up when it's relevant. Like in discussions with the Cape Town City Council and they mention the MSSA, I try to get rid of that crap ASAP.
Let me begin:
1. The MSSA (https://www.facebook.com/mindsportssa) is a private association which presents its audited (yes, audited) financial statements to its membership every year. The MSSA has never had a qualified audit, and from time-to-time has even presented its audited Annual Financial Statements to the National Lottery Board, the Minister of Sport and Recreation, the International Federations to which it is affiliated as well as to SASCOC.
2. There are no paid employees in the MSSA. All office-bearers hold their positions as volunteers and none have even received any form of honoraria since 1985.
3. Computer games was always part of the MSSA's constitution, and the MSSA held its first provincial championship in the late 1990's.
4. The position of General Secretary was created back in the early 1990's when some major constitutional changes were effected. A number of Registered Players have held the position prior to Colin Webster. One of such players is David Hlophe (awarded the President's Award - silver class - in 2001 by the Hon, Thabo Mbeki at Tuinhuys). Thus the statement made by "dislekcia" stating "a position which did not exist previously." is a total falsehood.
5. The concept that eSports could not gain control over the MSSA is also inaccurate and false. The way in which the MSSA currently operates is that all clubs have a representative vote based on the number of registered players. Thus it would not be rocket-science to see that the clubs with the largest membership (no mattyer which disciplines they catered for) would have the greatest say.
6. The organisation is not a "predatory, bullshit organisation that forces members to pay annual fees to participate in badly-run tournaments that offer little to no benefit and actively exclude the top competitors." On the contrary, the MSSA has done much to have eSports accredited. Many commentators from Europe and Asia testify to the progressive nature of the MSSA. Also many of the teams that the MSSA has sent overseas to international competitions have included the best of South Africa's gamers. When you realise that Robert 'PandaTank' Botha earned his spurs playing in international competition playing for the MSSA you will realise that the MSSA selects the best possible players whenever possible. This is supported by the MSSA's 2013 BF 3 national team as well as the 2013 DotA 2 Protea team which consisted mainly of gamers from Bravado and Energy eSports. The players that represented South Africa in FIFA too, were, without doubt, the nations top players which included players like Abubaker Ebrahiem and Rolando de Aveiro. The list of SA's greats goes on and on.
7. Interestingly "dislekcia" writes under a 'nick'. Writing under a 'nick' is a rather mundane and trivial occurance - hardly worthy of an article....
Thus when certain people claim there is corruprtion, it is a very easy matter to resolve in terms of the Act, yet those sitting on the sidelines whinging do nothing more than make wild accusations for which they have no facts.
I hope that in reading this rebuttal of the false accusations made, you are able to make a far more informed opinion.
Happy gaming!
Was replying here a good idea? I'm not sure, it doesn't look like a PR win move. Are those audited figures available to the public? I never got access to any of them when I was an MSSA member either... Why not simply post your records for all to see the shining lack of corruption, instead of insisting that everything is legit with no proof that this is true? I don't think it's a stretch to understand how modern South Africans might not trust mere words ;) Cool. The only issues being that we have no proof of this due to a lack of transparent records, and the fact that honorarium payments are not the only form of potential monetary gain - I doubt anyone from SA needs to be reminded of favored contractor arrangements and tenderpreneurship.
Furthermore, I'm not certain how this is supposed to help the popular perception of the MSSA: When one of the major points of complaint is the obsession that the MSSA has with collecting fees, learning that those fees don't actually pay for office-bearer time raises more questions about what happens with that money and where it goes.
Other questions spring to mind as well, such as what about the R500 complaint fees, where do they go? If those cover costs, of people's time, then either the people reviewing these complaints aren't office bearers, or such compensation isn't seen as honorarium. Again, openness fixes most of these concerns. I stand corrected. The MSSA made a land-grab for computer gaming in the late 1990s :)
If I recall correctly, the argument was that computer gaming qualified as a "mind sport" and was thus covered by the MSSA. If the terms "computer gaming" or similarly unambiguous "videogame" or "multiplayer game" were part of the MSSA's constitution back when it was first founded, I don't remember that. It remains a fact that the first gaming championships in SA had nothing to do with the MSSA and that the MSSA only appeared on the scene well after annual local tournaments like Worfaire established agreements with international organisations like the WCG.
The assumption on the part of my fellow early competitive players was always that the MSSA saw potential in games and stretched its definition to cover them, thus convincing people who didn't understand either. This wasn't helped by the existence of Chess SA when that's technically a "mind sport" too. The General Secretary position not existing previously is a fact I got from this article which reports that the President of the MSSA, Simphiwe Maphumulo said:
"Lastly, you are to speak to Mr Colin Webster because he is the general secretary (GS). During his reign he did not have a GS and that is why you dealt with him directly, things have changed."
That's why I assumed the position did not exist previously. I was wrong, it was simply not filled during Colin Webster's presidency, but has since been filled again by Colin Webster during the presidency immediately following his own. The implication remains the same. This is a fantastic double-blind. Firstly, people would have to join the MSSA and pay the fees that are so disputed, so the only way to have a voice is to pay the organisation that is currently ignoring or belittling said voice. Secondly, the clubs system doesn't address the three focus areas of the MSSA, I find it strange that this reply doesn't mention that those three branches have been dissolved. It would obviously be great if this was the case, because that was needlessly confusing and inherently limited the impact any one discipline could have...
Again, the proof is in the pudding: It's all well and good to say that something is "inaccurate and false", but that needs to be backed up with action and so far the MSSA has been a horrible place for eSports. Almost all the advances that have come in the local eSports scene have been despite the MSSA. When local community leaders have joined the MSSA and tried to use the structure that's supposedly there to help them, they end up leaving frustrated and disillusioned with that very same structure. This can't be a coincidence! The MSSA needs to stop feeling entitled to controlling eSports activities and moving toward further enabling and growing the things that are working. The MSSA is a predatory organisation as long as its primary activity appears to be collecting fees from individual players in a strange club system that doesn't make sense for games at all. The MSSA is a bullshit organisation as long as it prevents non-MSSA eSports activities from taking place and acts as though it is entitled to any and all eSports-related limelight in the country, as long as the MSSA keeps forcing players to work with second rate international organisations it's not going to change how its perceived either.
The MSSA wants to be progressive? Monetise spectators instead of players. Prioritise and grow streaming and casting locally. Work with instead of against local communities and accept that those communities shouldn't have to fall under the MSSA's archaic organisational structure and forfeit their ability to adapt to the ever-changing landscape of competitive gaming.
When did PandaTank stop playing as an MSSA member? When did the Polarfluke club stop being part of the MSSA? How does Matt Merks currently feel about the MSSA after trying to work within it for years? PandaTank's success has nothing to do with the MSSA - he received international invites to tournaments before he joined the MSSA and he only joined the MSSA under the hastily-assembled Polarfluke club after the MSSA pressured him into doing so under threat of sanctioning his ability to play as a South African representative. That's bullshit, no matter how you slice it.
What about the whole Battlefield 4 "Southern Barbarians" situation? That the MSSA has spent any time at all asserting its "right" to prevent people from representing South Africa undermines anything it has legitimately done aiding players in getting international exposure! Yes, the MSSA has sent players overseas to events, but almost every time this has happened red flags have been raised about everything from player selection to the standard of the event itself to the qualification processes and leagues that supplied the local players. What the MSSA needs to understand is that it's not the victim of a nationwide gamer hate campaign (although I'm sure that acting like it is isn't winning it any more friends), it's the victim of its own incompetence in the face of competitive gaming and the resulting violent insecurity that manifests as blocking passionate locals that try to grow something instead of helping them grow things faster. Ironically, "Colin" is a nickname too ;)
Seriously though, "dislekcia" links back to a real person through multiple means, even a quick google will tell you who I am. "Colin" carries no such disambiguation opportunities beyond your registered email address. As for the attempting to attack the validity of an argument by attacking the person providing it, we have a name for that sort of rhetorical crap and it's not considered good forum etiquette in these parts.
Beyond that, the second part of that paragraph is rather interesting - I have to assume that it relates to the article LazyGamer wrote which provided evidence showing that Colin Webster was masquerading as "Impi" specifically to attack people that criticised the MSSA while claiming to have nothing to do with the organisation at the same time. That's very worth writing an article about and one of the major reasons I'm upset with Lazygamer is how badly they hashed that up by injecting pointless "speaking to character" opinions when the bare facts painted so damning a picture!
Trying to dismiss the magnitude of that wrongdoing by attempting to point out that other people on the internet use nicknames when they post, especially when those nicknames are consistently linked to the same actual person, is beyond nonsensical. I thank you for the corrections to my previous assumptions, I have taken the opportunity to learn more where I can, but my core assessment of the MSSA as a bullshit, predatory organisation that does more harm than good remains unchallenged. It is precisely this sort of defensive, ill-considered PR suicide that informs that view.
If the MSSA is not corrupt, let it be transparent. If the MSSA is not bullshit, stop fighting local passion and embrace it instead. If the MSSA is not predatory, waive the club system and membership fees. If the MSSA is intent on not harming the progress of eSports in South Africa, it should stop asserting its unwanted hegemony and start listening to what players want. If that means the MSSA no longer represents gaming, so be it!
And I speak from the perspective of someone that has had a lot of impact on growing not only a South African community, but an industry and resulting personal career as well.
Also, MGSA (that's us) are an association in a similar legal manner to how the MSSA is registered (at least, that's what I understand). We're just a lot more transparent and don't require people pay membership fees or assert that MGSA is the only structure under which games can be developed in South Africa. MGSA is a support structure dedicated to growing something, the fact that we behave differently to the MSSA might hint at the MSSA having different priorities...
Our constitution should actually be here somewhere, although right now I can't find the link (casts summon @LexAquillia).
Gavin from Lazygamers asked me to post the following for completeness:
@dislekcia "I believe the injunction was sought by Webster in a personal capacity against the Lazygamer website. So yes, while Gavin wrote the article, he's also the editor and person ultimately in charge of the site, so he's answerable either way."
Gavin: Actually the injunction was taken against me personally and not the website. I am also not the editor or the person in charge of the site. The editor is Geoff Tim and the person in charge is the person who owns the holding company. I run the site.
@BlackShips: "Is there a third possibility where the outcome of this court case is that both Lazygamer and MSSA shut down their respective services and find employment in other industries?"
Gavin: No the only two possible outcomes of the current court case is that either I can post the articles again or not. Granted there can be follow up cases that could have different outcomes.
Also as a side note I have another job in an entirely separate industry. I'm not a trained journalist as you all have kindly pointed out :)
@Fengol: "Reading the article about the MSSA president's response I have to agree I find the journalist's writing very personal"
Gavin: Yes absolutely that is the style we strive for at Lazygamer. I agree it's not for everyone but we have our market and we love them. I think Gamasutra are possibly the most neutral gaming reporting website if that's your thing.
@BlackShips: "Agreed. It sounds like Webster was engaged in something very close to fraud, and from what I gather this isn't his first foray into evil (if not illegal) behaviour that hurts SA Gamers."
Gavin: What Colin Webster is in court for is absolutely not fraud or fraudulent. I made that mistake as I misunderstood the case file. A claim of fraud is a criminal claim while Mr Webster is in court in a civil matter.
Should I have reported on it? With hindsight no as it ruined the message as Dislekcia pointed out. However at the time the decision was made and if it wasn't for one word the article would still be up.