Aside from what I can see as an albeit funny but uninformative post from @Bensonance ;)
I believe personally that the console isn't quite what us (Giant Box Games at least) are looking to develop for and we also find the OUYA store to not be the most friendly place for Indie Devs looking to sell games at 15$+ due to the free to play and current low pricing on most of their titles. While under pricing hard work may have worked (to a degree, for financial stability at least) on the iStore trying to replicate such an environment for Indie Devs isn't stable or healthy... This is due to the fact that us as Indie Devs need consumer trust in order for gamers to buy into the "idea" of spending mid tier amounts of money (10-20$) on indie games, if we can't do this then indie games developers won't be financially stable in the long run... We as indie developers have a smaller audience on our games and can't afford to also have a (MUCH) smaller price point EG. 1-2$ or Free, as this won't work, just look at the insane start up costs for successful apps now days (and they are all free)
Long story short, I don't think the way the OUYA has managed their STORE policies is good for Indie. This is why IMO Gamestick is superior as their store policies have Devs make their games specifically for the console or at least optimised for the console building consumer good will and allowing us to put up higher prices as gamers trust the quality of games on the system.
Furthermore the low conversion rate from free to play games to sold titles isn't that inciting either...
DISCLAIMER: Just my opinion, Hope that was more helpful than a link...
I haven't touched an OUYA yet, but I'm keen to see what its like. I'm not looking to make a living from this. It'll purely be fore fun :)
I'm correct that all games are "free to an extent" you sell the full game or more content and get 70% of the sale? For interest sake, what are other platform policies like?
I had a look and there are a couple of Android devices like this popping up, Game Stick, Mad Catz M.O.J.O, NVidia Shield and more.
I also feel that this statement "But so far, Ouya’s storefront has been filled with relatively few god-awful games." is indicative of the fact that we NEED publishers to be PICKY when choosing games and even though that sounds COUNTER intuitive to the "Rise of Indies" we need them to only choose GOOD games for their stores so that consumers trust games on their stores enough to BUY them...
@RickyGC, you can see the prices on the OUYA store itself.
The OUYA use a policy where all games on their system MUST BE free to play/try at the very least meaning it forces you to have a demo of your game. If you would like to Dev games for such a console for fun, I would still recommend GameStick over OUYA, I can even put you in contact with Oliver from GameStick who has already sent plenty of SA Devs a GameStick DevKit.
@RickyGC Well basically as it stands most of this is my oppinion :) haha But I would be happy to clarify.
I believe that the GameStick is a superior console as it needs the games to be optimized for the system meaning one wont have to worry about getting a bad port when one buys a game. This gives the gamer (consumer) more trust in the system and overall increases sales and quality of games on the system. This is the primary reason why I prefer gamestick over OUYA but ultimately Dev for PC and hopefully some bigger console names.
On the side of starting out and making games, it doesn't really matter what you develop for/on as long as you develop, make a fully functional and fun game for PC (as this is easiest to first dev for) before you move on to working with consoles and different input structures, if you want to challenge yourself feel free to try out the various systems :) Its all up to you man haha!
I'm just saying if you want to make some (any) cash off a game you make and are dead set on deving something for an android micro-console you would probably make more on GameStick IMO
Ok this breakdown makes it clear, thanks! Clearly you know what you're talking about and it makes sense ;)
For the fun, I don't think it matters, because if I had an Android phone, I would probably even wanted to dev for that... The idea of doing it on a console excites me :) PC is definitely the easiest.
I just want to hear if there is anyone here doing it? I might be trying it out tomorrow :D
I wonder what happened to the guys from Knife Media? They used to post here a bit and have been developing for OUYA since their devkits reached our shores.
Tasty Poison has also been messing with OUYA development, as have Free Lives.
I dunno exactly how solid the argument for console-specific optimisation requirements meaning the platform is healthier - that could go both ways: If a platform can't be ported to easily AND doesn't have a large market penetration yet, then it's not going to draw developers to it. It just doesn't make financial sense to spend dev budget on a specific console version that narrows your portability.
The Free The Games Fund used to have clauses in it I really didn't like, stuff that locked you into exclusivity on the OUYA. But that's since been changed a bit. It's a better deal, but it's not a platform you can start out developing for and hope to use the FTGF to score a big budget - you need a solid reputation to drive a good Kickstarter.
As far as QCF goes - we'll look at the OUYA when we're done with our Steam release and have started porting the game to Android... Still a lot of support stuff we need to do on the Steam side after initial launch too - Linux version, controller support (maybe), etc. OUYA isn't looking like it would give us the return that would justify making it a primary platform. But as a free bonus we can hit alongside Android devices? That's cool.
I haven't had a chance to play with an Ouya myself, but I did have a go with the Gamestick at AMAZE and I was pleasantly surprised. The build quality on the GS is surprisingly good, the UI is very slick (quite obviously heavily influenced by Xbox 360) and the responsiveness of the controllers was great.
I've always been a bit skeptical about the whole microconsole thing, but after actually playing with this system I can see a real niche for them in the market. If the price is right (if I'm not mistaken, they're coming in at ~$70) these consoles could carve a nice chunk out of the budget console market, effectively competing with the 8-bit and 16-bit knockoffs that are still available all over the place. Get a gamestick controller into peoples hands (and they will, with their retail focused push) and they'll sell.
Of course, hardware manufacturers selling their kit, and game developers selling games for those same machines are two very different things (the Wii definitely taught the industry that lesson). I really have no idea how the kind of buyer that goes for a low end console like that will react to having to plug a credit card number in to play games. Overall though, I'm pretty optimistic-especially because they have a curated store, so the quality will be better than the flood of crap that drowns out good stuff on the iTunes and Play stores.
Another thing that I realized playing on the device was that in the next 6-12 months, controller support on mobile will finally become the Big Thing it was supposedly going to become ages ago. Between these microconsoles and Apple officially supporting controllers (they could officially endorse coffee warmer accessories and they'd sell like hotcakes) it's going to be essential for new Android/iOS titles to support controller input. In a way this really sucks, because it takes the focus away from getting the input scheme on games for these platforms tuned for touch, but in many cases gamers already have to settle for crappy on screen vpad implementations anyway.
I have an Ouya and I have to say the controller is super crap but there are some fixes to make it work. This is definitely not an profitable avenue but it is quite fun. I really enjoy the games on there and I don't regret getting the Ouya. I have tried some dev on there. The setup took a few tries but it's not to bad.
I would say this though, I believe when the SteamBox hits all Android consoles will die a horrible death and I suspect even PS and Xbox will feel it. Steam will just destroy with it's massive game selection.
@loet I really don't think Ouya (and Gamestick/other Android consoles) and the Steam Box are going after quite the same market. Yes, being consoles they all have some overlap, but the micro consoles are hitting a much more price-sensitive gamer than Steam Box or any of the more traditional console. Gamestick in particular is also much more portable than a traditional console and that gives it use cases that the others can't quite match (eg taking it along on holiday as @tbulford mentioned recently).
Well Toxic Bunny HD will be on the gamestick soon. So I guess we will be in a position to give some feedback on our experiance. As for the Ouya I am not convienced yet to try thier market. They really did aim hard at the hobiest game developer as ther market and not at a retail segment that would make building games for there platform attractive. Of course we are taking the chance that Gamestick might not reach an appropriate market. Its a low risk though since our game is well suited to a controller and is allready optimised for Android.
Our most difficult question has become price point. With a $70 price point for the device, are we going to end up in an Android market scenario where everyone wants everything for free? Or a steam one where everyone purchases the bulk of games when they are 75% off? 1$ 2$ 5$ whats a fair price in comparision to the other products on the device. Too low and Too high could hurt our sales and currently there is so little avialable market information since its still comming out.
I agree with @mattbenic about these devices possabily eating into the golden china type consoles market share. Issue of credit card solution for purchasing games remains a concern for that segment. Either way its a cool little device and we looking forward to seeing Toxic Bunny HD on a console.
@RickyGC: The biggest issue with the OUYA right now is the install base. In fact, this is the biggest issue with every single Android console, even if you put them all together they're not a big enough market to support how indie games generally work.
Because they don't have the budgets that can buy huge amounts of game content, indie games tend to be niche things. Not everyone will like playing any specific indie game, but that's fine because digital distribution to large audiences means there's always a fraction of that audience that would enjoy your game. If you can get your game out to enough people and it's good enough, chances are you can make a living off at least some of those people liking it.
In this system, anything that limits the number of people your game can be exposed to is bad - we talk about the "infinite audience theory" for a reason, but as soon as you make that audience boundedly finite you're effectively neutering your own potential success. That's what small install bases do... Even killer apps like Towerfall aren't doing that great, certainly not as well as that excellent game deserves (and indeed, would if it was available to a wider audience). So even if you do manage to produce something that gets noticed on OUYA, you absolutely have to be able to migrate out to at least PC to cover your costs.
Given that you'd end up moving to PC anyway AND that you'd need to develop in something that's cross platform, I don't see the business sense in starting on OUYA (or similar Android console) it isn't a captive market yet, or at least, it's not a big enough captive market. I'd dev for PC first and the pick whichever Android console is "winning" once you've got something people want to throw money at you for.
I think @mattbenic's case for building games that support controllers is really insightful: Build games around that and you'll be able to target a ton of potential platforms, from Android console to newly released mobile controllers and (of course) PC/SteamOS and regular consoles too if you have the contacts.
@dislekcia, 100% agree with you. I am not going for OUYA development because I see it a a chance to make money or anything. I simply like the idea of OUYA since I heard about the kickstarter. If I ever release a game, it would probably be multiplatformed.
What you're saying is exactly right... I'm simply saying, that if anyone WANTS to port their game to Android, I really think they could have a good game in the OUYA market. Same can probably be said for any other Android platform/console, but since this thread is about my new found love of the OUYA :) that is what I'm referring to.
There are only a handful of quality games I've found on OUYA so far. I haven't played tons of local games yet, but... Broforce will be insane on OUYA. Bearchuck plays really well on a gamepad and it's rather unique. Same can probably be said for lots of local games.
Comments
I believe personally that the console isn't quite what us (Giant Box Games at least) are looking to develop for and we also find the OUYA store to not be the most friendly place for Indie Devs looking to sell games at 15$+ due to the free to play and current low pricing on most of their titles. While under pricing hard work may have worked (to a degree, for financial stability at least) on the iStore trying to replicate such an environment for Indie Devs isn't stable or healthy... This is due to the fact that us as Indie Devs need consumer trust in order for gamers to buy into the "idea" of spending mid tier amounts of money (10-20$) on indie games, if we can't do this then indie games developers won't be financially stable in the long run... We as indie developers have a smaller audience on our games and can't afford to also have a (MUCH) smaller price point EG. 1-2$ or Free, as this won't work, just look at the insane start up costs for successful apps now days (and they are all free)
Long story short, I don't think the way the OUYA has managed their STORE policies is good for Indie. This is why IMO Gamestick is superior as their store policies have Devs make their games specifically for the console or at least optimised for the console building consumer good will and allowing us to put up higher prices as gamers trust the quality of games on the system.
Furthermore the low conversion rate from free to play games to sold titles isn't that inciting either...
DISCLAIMER: Just my opinion, Hope that was more helpful than a link...
I haven't touched an OUYA yet, but I'm keen to see what its like. I'm not looking to make a living from this. It'll purely be fore fun :)
I'm correct that all games are "free to an extent" you sell the full game or more content and get 70% of the sale?
For interest sake, what are other platform policies like?
I had a look and there are a couple of Android devices like this popping up, Game Stick, Mad Catz M.O.J.O, NVidia Shield and more.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/15/why-the-ouya-is-worth-100-with-the-next-gen-looming/#rMcUG1DsIJA5bieF.99
The OUYA use a policy where all games on their system MUST BE free to play/try at the very least meaning it forces you to have a demo of your game. If you would like to Dev games for such a console for fun, I would still recommend GameStick over OUYA, I can even put you in contact with Oliver from GameStick who has already sent plenty of SA Devs a GameStick DevKit.
I believe that the GameStick is a superior console as it needs the games to be optimized for the system meaning one wont have to worry about getting a bad port when one buys a game. This gives the gamer (consumer) more trust in the system and overall increases sales and quality of games on the system. This is the primary reason why I prefer gamestick over OUYA but ultimately Dev for PC and hopefully some bigger console names.
On the side of starting out and making games, it doesn't really matter what you develop for/on as long as you develop, make a fully functional and fun game for PC (as this is easiest to first dev for) before you move on to working with consoles and different input structures, if you want to challenge yourself feel free to try out the various systems :) Its all up to you man haha!
I'm just saying if you want to make some (any) cash off a game you make and are dead set on deving something for an android micro-console you would probably make more on GameStick IMO
For the fun, I don't think it matters, because if I had an Android phone, I would probably even wanted to dev for that... The idea of doing it on a console excites me :) PC is definitely the easiest.
I just want to hear if there is anyone here doing it? I might be trying it out tomorrow :D
Tasty Poison has also been messing with OUYA development, as have Free Lives.
I dunno exactly how solid the argument for console-specific optimisation requirements meaning the platform is healthier - that could go both ways: If a platform can't be ported to easily AND doesn't have a large market penetration yet, then it's not going to draw developers to it. It just doesn't make financial sense to spend dev budget on a specific console version that narrows your portability.
The Free The Games Fund used to have clauses in it I really didn't like, stuff that locked you into exclusivity on the OUYA. But that's since been changed a bit. It's a better deal, but it's not a platform you can start out developing for and hope to use the FTGF to score a big budget - you need a solid reputation to drive a good Kickstarter.
As far as QCF goes - we'll look at the OUYA when we're done with our Steam release and have started porting the game to Android... Still a lot of support stuff we need to do on the Steam side after initial launch too - Linux version, controller support (maybe), etc. OUYA isn't looking like it would give us the return that would justify making it a primary platform. But as a free bonus we can hit alongside Android devices? That's cool.
I've always been a bit skeptical about the whole microconsole thing, but after actually playing with this system I can see a real niche for them in the market. If the price is right (if I'm not mistaken, they're coming in at ~$70) these consoles could carve a nice chunk out of the budget console market, effectively competing with the 8-bit and 16-bit knockoffs that are still available all over the place. Get a gamestick controller into peoples hands (and they will, with their retail focused push) and they'll sell.
Of course, hardware manufacturers selling their kit, and game developers selling games for those same machines are two very different things (the Wii definitely taught the industry that lesson). I really have no idea how the kind of buyer that goes for a low end console like that will react to having to plug a credit card number in to play games. Overall though, I'm pretty optimistic-especially because they have a curated store, so the quality will be better than the flood of crap that drowns out good stuff on the iTunes and Play stores.
Another thing that I realized playing on the device was that in the next 6-12 months, controller support on mobile will finally become the Big Thing it was supposedly going to become ages ago. Between these microconsoles and Apple officially supporting controllers (they could officially endorse coffee warmer accessories and they'd sell like hotcakes) it's going to be essential for new Android/iOS titles to support controller input. In a way this really sucks, because it takes the focus away from getting the input scheme on games for these platforms tuned for touch, but in many cases gamers already have to settle for crappy on screen vpad implementations anyway.
I would say this though, I believe when the SteamBox hits all Android consoles will die a horrible death and I suspect even PS and Xbox will feel it. Steam will just destroy with it's massive game selection.
Hopefully dev set-up is not as bad as it seems to sound all over the net :(
Unity environment set-up easy as pie. Controller is perfect. Games are pretty fun, heck even my girlfriend played around... :P that is a big deal.
I'll make this thread a how-to and about of OUYA development :)
Our most difficult question has become price point. With a $70 price point for the device, are we going to end up in an Android market scenario where everyone wants everything for free? Or a steam one where everyone purchases the bulk of games when they are 75% off? 1$ 2$ 5$ whats a fair price in comparision to the other products on the device. Too low and Too high could hurt our sales and currently there is so little avialable market information since its still comming out.
I agree with @mattbenic about these devices possabily eating into the golden china type consoles market share. Issue of credit card solution for purchasing games remains a concern for that segment. Either way its a cool little device and we looking forward to seeing Toxic Bunny HD on a console.
I am having so much fun trying out new games, but honestly... local games are far far far batter :)
Anyone keen to borrow my OUYA to check things out, get in touch! I might even consider getting another one
Because they don't have the budgets that can buy huge amounts of game content, indie games tend to be niche things. Not everyone will like playing any specific indie game, but that's fine because digital distribution to large audiences means there's always a fraction of that audience that would enjoy your game. If you can get your game out to enough people and it's good enough, chances are you can make a living off at least some of those people liking it.
In this system, anything that limits the number of people your game can be exposed to is bad - we talk about the "infinite audience theory" for a reason, but as soon as you make that audience boundedly finite you're effectively neutering your own potential success. That's what small install bases do... Even killer apps like Towerfall aren't doing that great, certainly not as well as that excellent game deserves (and indeed, would if it was available to a wider audience). So even if you do manage to produce something that gets noticed on OUYA, you absolutely have to be able to migrate out to at least PC to cover your costs.
Given that you'd end up moving to PC anyway AND that you'd need to develop in something that's cross platform, I don't see the business sense in starting on OUYA (or similar Android console) it isn't a captive market yet, or at least, it's not a big enough captive market. I'd dev for PC first and the pick whichever Android console is "winning" once you've got something people want to throw money at you for.
I think @mattbenic's case for building games that support controllers is really insightful: Build games around that and you'll be able to target a ton of potential platforms, from Android console to newly released mobile controllers and (of course) PC/SteamOS and regular consoles too if you have the contacts.
What you're saying is exactly right... I'm simply saying, that if anyone WANTS to port their game to Android, I really think they could have a good game in the OUYA market. Same can probably be said for any other Android platform/console, but since this thread is about my new found love of the OUYA :) that is what I'm referring to.
There are only a handful of quality games I've found on OUYA so far. I haven't played tons of local games yet, but... Broforce will be insane on OUYA. Bearchuck plays really well on a gamepad and it's rather unique. Same can probably be said for lots of local games.