tbh I dunno what most of that means, but I threw up in my mouth when I saw the design of that page. 80s sci-fi movies called, they want their movie internet back.
You'll want to get to the source: You can contact Mrs Hope Helene Malgas, who is the chair of the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education through her secratary at lbrown@parliament.gov.za and if you want to be even more direct go here: http://www.parliament.gov.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=215&CommitteeID=9
I'd also give the people at Equal Education a buzz (@equal_education)
IT in most schools is already a waste of time, but now even the schools that have tried their best to add real value look to have been hamstrung. Oh, and CAT, for those who don't know, is a matric subject in which you learn to use Office. I shit you not. It reminds me of 'Typing' when I was at high-school, which was reserved for girls without 'academic potential' and was offered alongside home-ec. (yes I'm that old.)
I would definitely approve a letter of condemnation to the Dept of Basic Education from MakeGamesSA!
Back in 1996 I had to take Computer Literacy and it was a joke! I got detention for making a game in Turbo Pascal and showing my friends in class because we were supposed to spend the 45min writing out and formatting a text document which I did in probably the first 5 minutes.
Lol. And bizarrely forcing Microsoft products on learners is actually against the government's own mandate.
But I'm more saddened by prescribing Delphi. (I'm not trying to bash Delphi or those who have used it, just, it's not a step in the right direction to be teaching it at schools for the next decade)
Prescribing Delphi is not the worst possible thing (it's just way less cool than something that's in fashion now, IMHO). At least each working programmer will have learnt at least two programming languages, which is good...
Funnily enough, the universities are heading the opposite way. A colleague of mine teaches Matlab, and he's been encouraged to switch to something open source so that the students can get it for free (legally, that is).
Nothing wrong with Delphi though (except the cost). I had fun programming in it for years (yes, a pirated copy :( ). I'm just not sure why they are switching the provinces teaching a language used by about 1 in 5 professional programmers to one that's used by something like 1 in 100.
Fuck me this is depressing, it is only because my school is(was?) one of (if not the only) school in Limpopo to do Java that I was able to learn to code in a free and fun environment...
@AlphaSheep said: "Funnily enough, the universities are heading the opposite way. A colleague of mine teaches Matlab, and he's been encouraged to switch to something open source so that the students can get it for free (legally, that is)." Yup, we are getting a LOT of that too. It is part of increasing accessibility to tech fields to students who don't have the financial ability to buy stuff. It is really important if we are ever to build a more inclusive technology base in SA.
At Tuks, we did octave - basically Matlab - for years. I had IT at school and learned the basic logic of coding so it was a walk through the park, but my friends had a hard time. They switched to Python this year and apparently it is much better :)
On the relevance side of the argument, while I think Java would be a better choice, I still think Pascal is a decent language for teaching programming fundamentals. I also agree with @hermantulleken that it does have the benefit that anyone that goes on to actually code for a living will probably end up knowing at least two languages. Very few devs are immediately ready to be picked up for programming jobs straight out of school anyway, and will end up getting some kind of further education in it. I also understand the perceived value of teaching MS Office, the reality is, it's the most immediately valuable going into most jobs, compared to something like OOo/Libre that's still far less popular in the workplace.
My biggest concerns with something like this move are the financial implications. It's already expensive enough for less privileged schools to maintain IT courses, and for students attending those schools that might not have the means to get kitted out to take that further at home. Now that cost is added to by using office and development tools with licensing costs.
BTW because of this I actually went looking for Delphi, I had no idea it was under new ownership-and you can now even build iOS and Android apps in it O_o
But why Java? Why not C/C++ then? Then there's no massive VM that constantly needs updating, they learn about memory usage and, hoping, how compiling works as well.
I probably learnt the most about how much I love C# when I was torn from its features doing C++ and I also came to understand how a lot of languages work "under the hood" because C is so bare bones.
Ok, I realise in reality it's because schools are outcomes based and it's a lot easier to do a lot in a language like Java or C# than it is C++.
At least two good reasons I can think of to prefer Java over C/C++ as a first teaching language:
1. Exactly because they don't need to learn about memory management :) It's important to learn at some point, but starting out it's less likely to make sense and it just overcomplicates getting simple things done. 2. Because Java comes with frameworks for everything out the box, including GUI dev. C++ offers all this functionality and more, but it's that much more complex to find the right libraries, link them in to your application, etc. Again it's a case of it being simpler to just get simple things done.
I do believe that all programmers benefit from learning C/C++ at some point in their careers, I just don't think it makes sense as a first language, particularly at school level where there's pretty much zero filter on the competence level of the students starting the course.
On a related note, a benefit that both Java and C++ have is that there are some really good free/open source IDEs out there, that would be at least as good for the students to use as Delphi. I'm a NetBeans fanboy, so of course that would be my pick, but there are others as well.
So I think that what I'd actually prefer for this is to not actually worry too much about writing actual code but instead focusing on programming fundamentals.
Rather teach pupils solid fundamentals about program flow and logic than focusing on a specific language. I don't know if there are other applications like this, but in our computer science classes we used to program called Niki(if I remember correctly). Essentially you had 3 commands, Forward, Turn Right, Turn Left. The idea was to write a set of instructions to get Nike from where he was to a goal point on a square grid(no diagonal moment. The three basic commands could be combined into newly named commands like TurnAround = Turn Right, Turn Right.
I would prefer things like that being taught and all the actual languages being available.
When people are struggling with what a for loop is, and can't do nested if statements, thinking about introducing a language that requires memory management and compiling is awfully stupid.
It's particularly derp to enforce a non-free language on learners when the alternatives are amazing OSS teaching tools like Scratch to start out with, transition into Python for your functional programming expansion, then Java, C# or JS for your OO basics and eventually C/C++ for memory management and data structures.
Of course, people would be too busy going "But that's too hard for students! Herp derp!" to see the kids kicking ass.
@dislekcia, it irks me that (some) teachers assume that if they don't understand something their pupils can't possibly understand it either.
Yup. It's pretty depressing... When we were working on Mathstermind the teachers kept telling us that we were making it "too hard for the students" - we'd taken a look at the syllabus and decided that having slightly less shitty gauges of progress might, y'know, inspire these girls a bit more.
2 weeks after the launch, every single player was rocking the "impossible" genius difficulty that we put in there that went well beyond what the syllabus required. These girls were not only demonstrating that they'd mastered the skills the syllabus said it was supposed to be teaching, but they'd moved further in 2 weeks than their teachers said they could move IN A YEAR.
Ever since then I have little to no time for people who justify the removal of challenge from education on the grounds that all kids are somehow stupid. No, they're just not interested in your boring way of teaching.
Ever since then I have little to no time for people who justify the removal of challenge from education on the grounds that all kids are somehow stupid. No, they're just not interested in your boring way of teaching.
This!
(Aka I couldn't give a double-heart so a heart and post shall have to do)
Niki was great for those fundamentals, but doing it for anything more than a few weeks is likely to put pretty much anyone off programming :P They definitely need to do "real" programming, I just don't think going as far as dealing with memory management is entirely necessary at that stage.
@dislekcia I'm not saying use Java over c++ to dumb it down. Introduce challenges, but in more interesting ways-through the actual projects that need doing. There's fun challenge (which I think your story of Mathstermind illustrates perfectly) and there's crappy wading through getting the fiddly bits working before starting on on the real fun kind of challenge. More of the former is awesome, more of the latter is the last thing you want at the point where people are still figuring out whether they even enjoy programming...
Or were you talking about the dumbasses in the ED dumbing things down to their level? :P
Or were you talking about the dumbasses in the ED dumbing things down to their level? :P
Yeah, that was the context of "dumbing it down" - not going to argue any specific language over any other, just saying that there should be a progression in languages learned just like there is in actual language use.
Also, Niki sounds like a reduced set of Logo, which was pretty damn neat back in the day. Dealt with the issues of printing out patterns of stars being helluva boring ;) Scratch and the various game-layer Scratch plugins seem to be all about similar acceleration/accentuation of learner feedback and feelings of power. I have no idea how Delphi is supposed to compare to that...
Ever since then I have little to no time for people who justify the removal of challenge from education on the grounds that all kids are somehow stupid. No, they're just not interested in your boring way of teaching.
Amen. The story of my life... I refuse to dumb it down because people underestimate the students. I have come across this in all the institutions I have taught in, it is insulting to the teachers and the students. The more you give them to reach for, the higher they will reach.
Amen. The story of my life... I refuse to dumb it down because people underestimate the students. I have come across this in all the institutions I have taught in, it is insulting to the teachers and the students. The more you give them to reach for, the higher they will reach.
And it's always a struggle to do so because institutions are trying to force you to use your time to be nothing more than a logging/stat capturing robot. I think it's a little better at Universities due to TAs, but it's still hard to focus on spending your time improving learner experience and challenge instead of lining them all up to jump through the hoops admin wants from you.
Comments
(yes I know that wasn't the point)
Way to kill interest, DoE :(
I'd also give the people at Equal Education a buzz (@equal_education)
IT in most schools is already a waste of time, but now even the schools that have tried their best to add real value look to have been hamstrung.
Oh, and CAT, for those who don't know, is a matric subject in which you learn to use Office. I shit you not. It reminds me of 'Typing' when I was at high-school, which was reserved for girls without 'academic potential' and was offered alongside home-ec. (yes I'm that old.)
Back in 1996 I had to take Computer Literacy and it was a joke! I got detention for making a game in Turbo Pascal and showing my friends in class because we were supposed to spend the 45min writing out and formatting a text document which I did in probably the first 5 minutes.
But I'm more saddened by prescribing Delphi. (I'm not trying to bash Delphi or those who have used it, just, it's not a step in the right direction to be teaching it at schools for the next decade)
Luckily I'll be missing it by one year because of this:
Nothing wrong with Delphi though (except the cost). I had fun programming in it for years (yes, a pirated copy :( ). I'm just not sure why they are switching the provinces teaching a language used by about 1 in 5 professional programmers to one that's used by something like 1 in 100.
Why does this seem very backward...
"Funnily enough, the universities are heading the opposite way. A colleague of mine teaches Matlab, and he's been encouraged to switch to something open source so that the students can get it for free (legally, that is)."
Yup, we are getting a LOT of that too. It is part of increasing accessibility to tech fields to students who don't have the financial ability to buy stuff. It is really important if we are ever to build a more inclusive technology base in SA.
So at least Tuks is doing it right!
My biggest concerns with something like this move are the financial implications. It's already expensive enough for less privileged schools to maintain IT courses, and for students attending those schools that might not have the means to get kitted out to take that further at home. Now that cost is added to by using office and development tools with licensing costs.
BTW because of this I actually went looking for Delphi, I had no idea it was under new ownership-and you can now even build iOS and Android apps in it O_o
I probably learnt the most about how much I love C# when I was torn from its features doing C++ and I also came to understand how a lot of languages work "under the hood" because C is so bare bones.
Ok, I realise in reality it's because schools are outcomes based and it's a lot easier to do a lot in a language like Java or C# than it is C++.
1. Exactly because they don't need to learn about memory management :) It's important to learn at some point, but starting out it's less likely to make sense and it just overcomplicates getting simple things done.
2. Because Java comes with frameworks for everything out the box, including GUI dev. C++ offers all this functionality and more, but it's that much more complex to find the right libraries, link them in to your application, etc. Again it's a case of it being simpler to just get simple things done.
I do believe that all programmers benefit from learning C/C++ at some point in their careers, I just don't think it makes sense as a first language, particularly at school level where there's pretty much zero filter on the competence level of the students starting the course.
On a related note, a benefit that both Java and C++ have is that there are some really good free/open source IDEs out there, that would be at least as good for the students to use as Delphi. I'm a NetBeans fanboy, so of course that would be my pick, but there are others as well.
So I think that what I'd actually prefer for this is to not actually worry too much about writing actual code but instead focusing on programming fundamentals.
Rather teach pupils solid fundamentals about program flow and logic than focusing on a specific language. I don't know if there are other applications like this, but in our computer science classes we used to program called Niki(if I remember correctly). Essentially you had 3 commands, Forward, Turn Right, Turn Left. The idea was to write a set of instructions to get Nike from where he was to a goal point on a square grid(no diagonal moment. The three basic commands could be combined into newly named commands like TurnAround = Turn Right, Turn Right.
I would prefer things like that being taught and all the actual languages being available.
Of course, people would be too busy going "But that's too hard for students! Herp derp!" to see the kids kicking ass.
2 weeks after the launch, every single player was rocking the "impossible" genius difficulty that we put in there that went well beyond what the syllabus required. These girls were not only demonstrating that they'd mastered the skills the syllabus said it was supposed to be teaching, but they'd moved further in 2 weeks than their teachers said they could move IN A YEAR.
Ever since then I have little to no time for people who justify the removal of challenge from education on the grounds that all kids are somehow stupid. No, they're just not interested in your boring way of teaching.
(Aka I couldn't give a double-heart so a heart and post shall have to do)
Edit: also we have link quotes now \o/
They definitely need to do "real" programming, I just don't think going as far as dealing with memory management is entirely necessary at that stage.
@dislekcia I'm not saying use Java over c++ to dumb it down. Introduce challenges, but in more interesting ways-through the actual projects that need doing. There's fun challenge (which I think your story of Mathstermind illustrates perfectly) and there's crappy wading through getting the fiddly bits working before starting on on the real fun kind of challenge. More of the former is awesome, more of the latter is the last thing you want at the point where people are still figuring out whether they even enjoy programming...
Or were you talking about the dumbasses in the ED dumbing things down to their level? :P
Also, Niki sounds like a reduced set of Logo, which was pretty damn neat back in the day. Dealt with the issues of printing out patterns of stars being helluva boring ;) Scratch and the various game-layer Scratch plugins seem to be all about similar acceleration/accentuation of learner feedback and feelings of power. I have no idea how Delphi is supposed to compare to that...
The more you give them to reach for, the higher they will reach.