http://www.lazygamer.net/south-africa/what-classes-as-a-successful-indie/
In case anyone missed it.
I think, personally, any game that gets international attention and can commercially sustain itself is successful. Sure there are different yardsticks of success, but that doesn't prevent being able to do what you love all the time from being a form of success.
Go discuss :)
In case anyone missed it.
I think, personally, any game that gets international attention and can commercially sustain itself is successful. Sure there are different yardsticks of success, but that doesn't prevent being able to do what you love all the time from being a form of success.
Go discuss :)
Thanked by 1EvanGreenwood
Comments
SO PROFESSIONAL.
" I thought we could try have a discussion with everyone in the comments section"
Interpreted: "Damn, I wish all this chatter on Twitter was happening on my site instead where I can track clicks and ad revenue!"
"with the promise of beta access"
That kinda implies it's something that was promised that has yet to come to fruition, and not something that currently exists.
"but in my personal opinion I see pre-orders as different from crowd-funding"
Did he write this just to have a pop at DD?
"I’m not naming any of the prolific hobbyists in case someone else get’s their panties/boxers twisted."
Again, so professional.
"Is it fair to say people like QCF (Desktop Dungeons) have taken too long on their game and must now release it?"
Yep, I think he did.
What I keep coming back to though, is that from what I understand about DD, it's an almost entirely complete product, and you guys are mostly expanding and fixing some things (please do correct me if I'm wrong). You could, in theory, flick a hypothetical switch and flag the game as "complete", and it would make Gavin (and, apparently, thousands of riotous gamers) very happy. But it's this notion that what you have can't be played and enjoyed until it's released that just seems nuts.
In terms of what is successful as an indie, I think we're doing pretty well: Winning major awards at the IGF, having massive YT channels playing our games, getting greenlit in nearly record time, and having our games at numerous international festivals. I don't think it should be necessary to do a collective credential check for the games that come from MGSA, but when people try to define the success of an indie by Farmville's success, I feel it necessary to point out that we have some awesomely successful games!
On the notion of success: I think it's very relative to personal goals. So far as The Maker's Eden is concerned, we'll consider Act 1 a success if it sells enough to fund the development of Act 2. In terms relative to how much money AAA games rake in, that's tiny and not really 'successful' at all. But it'll be OUR success.
Erm so I only now noticed the tape measure set at 6 inches. Kinda says more then the rest of that article to me.
I suspect that they're falling victim to an office culture of valuing controversy. Controversy over truth or actual value even.
Hobbyist 'journalist' with metacritic status and misinformed negative bias as DD nears release. No problem there?
Lazygamer's traffic was the sixth highest in SA last month. Not for gaming sites - for all sites. It may be hobbyist journalism but it's a heavily visited site that unfortunately has some sway upon its readers. The owner is not taking that position seriously and handling it with the respect it merits. It's one thing to air personal gripes on your personal blog - it's another to do it in a professional capacity on a website that's expected to be professional in providing unbiased coverage of the gaming scene in South Africa.
"What makes a successful gaming website?"
Is it: Has Evan Greenwood personally heard of them in a context other than "they want to interview him" or has ever intentionally visited it for anything other that to head the interview they posted"
If so, then not successful.
Or is it: Are they doing something they love and are able to achieve the goals they set for themselves and also maybe afford to live a comfortable life (by their standards) while doing so?
If so, then... probably?
In any case that is the standard I'd think any reasonable person would hold up to judge whether someone else was successful.
If this Gavin person expects to set other people's criteria for success from their perspective by describing his criteria for success from his perspective, then he's being a little derp.
We all know that you can only measure success by the number of jacuzzi's the person has access to.
What are you talking about? You do what they say or they shoot you.
WRONG. You take the gun, or you pull out a bigger one. Or, you call their bluff. Or, you do any one of a hundred and forty six other things.”
― Harvey Specter, Suits
Isn't one of the beautiful and important things about being indie that you get to set your own goals?
And if Lazy Gamer has taught us anything, it's that there can only be one subjective measure of success.
If that is true (and I think it can reasonably be said to be true), then having one of the most ill-informed games websites with regards to indie gaming not only notice you, but be vaguely aware (if confused) of your development process, and go so far as to bemoan that you haven't released your game yet...
Is surely one of the best indicators that you are successful that is possible?
If so, then conglaturations QCF! You're a success!
In all seriousness though. I think we need to nail this question of "What constitutes independent game development success?" before we do any more work that might not be in line with being seen as successful by Lazy Gamer.
There are jacuzzi salesmen who's livelihoods depend on it.
If my measure of my success is whether my work will fetch millions that will never enrich my own life then ok... But I wouldn't wish that on myself.
If judged to be viable, use the mindshare to punt your game. Otherwise, do not engage.
CentInput(2);
We did an interview with them. The effect: Nada. Zero. Zilch.
But LazyGamer can do harm to us, as they were doing with implying that Desktop Dungeons is not sincerely being worked on (they compared it to that CLASH game that got kickstarted for $500,000 and subsequently didn't work on it full time). That's a dangerous allegation to throw at a developer who's livelihood is the trust that their game will be released and will be good. And in this case it was entirely unfounded.
In fact I'd guess QCF have grounds for taking legal action against them. I don't think they have pulled that article or corrected it. (Obviously I'm not suggesting legal action or the threat thereof would be a smart move).
So I'd rather them not talk about South African games at all. They clearly don't have a sincere interest in them.
I think they actively dislike most independent games in fact. And so coming up on their radar for geographical reasons makes no sense.
And I think being prickly with them could cause them to be less happy as human beings.
This is the Interwebtubes, and the mob rules! "That's how the Interwebtubes work, sadly."
And as far as I know they have no jacuzzis.
I simply argue that you need to think about how you come across to the greater audience when you argue, that's all. Your conduct will sway opinions. If we resort to the same sniping, we come across just as badly.
If you think there's no benefit to your game or company in engaging, I argue you shouldn't engage at all. Not publically, at least. :P
Also, jacuzzis are overrated. Need moar sauna rooms.
[quote = "Charlie Sheen"]You know it was a good shower when you come out feeling dirtier than when you went in.[/quote]
Although I think @dislekcia's graphs are probably more succinct.
I think you're totally overreacting, and being politically correct on a suburban level.
You may wish to substitute lyrics with those of your own devising, but please ensure the chorus remains intact ;)
@Gibbo - Ah, gotcha, thanks for clarifying! A mere blot on the landscape, then. Yay.
As for "overreacting" and being "politically correct", well, not really. I just find the whole thing tiresome and unnecessary, is all.
We expected journalists who had our contact details to contact us and check their facts before posting assumptions in answer to questions they were being asked about out work.
We expected journalists to correct incorrect information that they had already printed, once they received more accurate information.
We expected journalists to use the information we provided them to inform their readers, instead they used information to imply further incorrect assumptions as though they were factual.
That simply points to our expectations being incorrect. We have rectified that and no longer expect LazyGamer to behave as journalists would. We have been in contact with every LazyGamer writer and, while at least one of them has expressed a desire to handle things in a more professional manner, I'm afraid that we can't risk expecting journalistic integrity from LazyGamer as a whole. An organisation that has Metacritic rating capabilities and drives no perceivable traffic difference when they cover us, is not worth risking our image over.
We have debated turning this into a larger news story elsewhere, especially in light of my recent talk at AMAZE. We're not pursuing this angle right now because we have a game to finish and there's the chance that our private interactions with LazyGamer staff might still have a positive impact.