ZAGD Declares WAR on MGSA

edited in General
It is amazing how a single catalyst like [removed name of forum member at request - admin] can bring about such a vendetta.

6 Months ago ZAGD was founded by game developers who sought to do things completely differently. Notably , unprofessionally.

We were attacked from day one on the first thread by insecure MGSA leaders who have tried everything to stop us by convincing the community that we were not of value to SA and that our admin were a destructive wrecking crew.

UNFORTUNATELY FOR MGSA - They could not have been more wrong.

Many games have been marketed successfully through ZAGD as we have created alliances with different parties rather then trying to tare them down.

The privileged white MGSA community which dominates Google Search Engine Rankings and takes the pickings of the top of a introverted internal waste of time marketing system based on control has proven to fall short of what can be achieved by social media.

We have specifically shown the world that more can be achieved with Social Media then with a simple website with thousands of policies and rules.

What you don't know, is that while MGSA was taking breaths while ZAGD went on maintenance mode, we were actualy putting together a team of unprofessional, Attorneys, programmers, CA's, Teachers, Marketers and several companies that have all fallen under the ZAGD brand.

We have investment, Alliances and we still promote all communities and have no rules!!

Thus the primary objective of ZAGD is now to take the Market completely away from MGSA & render the community defeated.

All ex MGSA members are welcome to Join our 650 members on ZAGD and we will be offering internships in the near future at NSG.

Capitalist, introvert communities, lead by people who coppy and mimic international market trends and ideas of professionalism is not welcome in SA and we encourage everyone to leave MGSA & Join ZAGD and sister communities / Alliances. As MGSA is rot.

Why the strong take on the matter...well after reading the previous thread 'ZAGD Response', I can only say that MGSA is unreasonable and is now discussing ZAGD tactics in order to move the community forward.

But the admins of MGSA know, that by moving to social media, they will play second fiddle to ZAGD & Their wonderful makegamessa.com forum will be all but abandoned...That is why dear matt is trying so hard to convince you in the other thread that the forums are the way to go.

MGSA is stagnant and shrinking.

Again another ZAGD post hits top on their forums 'ZAGD Response' It is now time for you to admit defeat and take on a new culture of Marketting, an unprofessional brotherhood of Game Developers, Marketers and animators, mixed in with Gamers of both international and national locations.

Oh and guys, all the hundreds of hate mails that I received in my Facebook in box, well, on behalf of ZAGD, I would like to say, go fuck yourselves, we are not going anywhere, we don't care about professionalism, we only care about fun, community, marketing and branding...

and the only way to achieve that is by having fun, not boxing the community into little corners or having leaders controlling the community! There is a place for everyone at ZAGD.

Have a great fucking day! Soon you will assimilate with the Alpha community.

We ain't scared to Market! (Our new Slogan)

http://southafricangamedevelopers.com

Comments

  • Thus the primary objective of ZAGD is now to take the Market completely away from MGSA & render the community defeated.
    I have flagged this post as it doesn't seem like Julian is interested in leading civilized discussions with this community at all. However, I think it is important to hear what you guys have to say to this: Is he bluffing maybe?
  • time for you to admit defeat and take on a new culture of Marketting
    Its difficult because you keep on banning us from the ZAGD group when we post there but you always seem to come here and talk a load of crap.
    Thanked by 1Mexicanopiumdog
  • edited
    @Julian, I'm still quite clueless why this is some war to you. No one is making money out of any of this, no one is gaining awards, no one is becoming famous. Running a forum like this is a thankless task that people do because they have a selfless drive to better the community.

    And no one is worried about MGSA being abandoned. If you haven't realized by now, anyone that seems like they are worried about people moving from MGSA to ZAGD isn't worried about the "leaving MGSA" part at all. They are worried that the person is going to a community run by someone who is more interested in starting some magical war out of nothing, than helping that person build games and learn skills. It may surprise you, but some people legitimately care about people, not just about their ego's.

    Anyway, my question from the previous post (why do we keep moving to new posts?) about your culculations still stands.

    EDIT: Removed a paragraph replying to your matt comment, which I had thought was me ;-)
    Thanked by 1Elyaradine
  • edited
    Julian said:
    ZAGD went on maintenance mode, we were actualy putting together a team of unprofessional
    QFT
  • Wowow this looks interesting. Apologies for jumping in from nowhere (*waves* hi MGSA ppls, miss you all!)

    @julian, can the two spaces not live simultaneously? No one is charging money for them so it's quite easy to be "members" of both spaces, no?

    I don't see a situation where both existing would be a harm to either. I personally like MGSA content and the people here.

    Not that I've not had my problems with it. But we fundamentally all want to make good games and help those around us. We want to be sensitive to problematic content and we want to be professional. As a result we've been trying to grow to encompass those values. That's quite a cool thing and despite the sometimes seemingly endless growing pains I'm proud that I'm part of that. I've also been very critical and distanced myself sometimes but I'm poking around now and everyone seems to be getting along here alright :)

    So, like, if you would like your anarchistic style forums with no rules then sure, go for it. Does that mean that these forums and these people have to "choose" one and only one? I joined up on the ZAGD page for a bit, wanted to see what was going on. I think I posted a thing or two, can't remember but I was a "member" of both simultaneously and like... that would have worked out fine, no? (in the end it wasn't my vibe so I left that Facebook group, have my reasons that I posted on my fb wall ages ago)

    I don't see the need for a war. Go do your thing. There is no "better" group necessarily. They would serve different interests. Super Friendship Arcade existed somewhat outside this community for a long time, but interfaced with it (correct me if I'm wrong) . That I think (and I am biased having been part of that) was one of this community's favorite events/communities!

    I'm in Europe atm, there are a fuckton of communities here (not profit esque). All sizes, all disciplines, all variations. They all get on fine, even when money is involved. They usually band together, it's tough it there afterall. Like, we really can coexist, surely?
  • edited
    Julian said:
    Many games have been marketed successfully through ZAGD as we have created alliances with different parties rather then trying to tare them down.
    I'm not sure I follow this point, partly because I'm not sure what the effect a Facebook community group can have in terms of marketing, and partly because I think @Julian might be using the word "marketed" differently to the way I would.

    Has ZAGD been able to market games and have a significant impact on their sales or exposure? If so that's pretty rad.
    Thanked by 2raxter pieter
  • I have been lurking/posting on MGSA AND ZAGD for a while now, I may not always agree or like what is done or said on either but I will say one thing, there is no reason these two cannot co exist or even help each other.
    If I like a game that someone has made regardless of where they choose to post it or chose to talk about it I will keep liking the game and keep following its progress.
    No one can force me to stay or post where I do not want, but I'd rather put my extra energy into making a game/story or knife rather than looking for a fight.
    Hope for those that are serious and passionate about game making that this does not influence/affect them negatively.
  • Make in itch.io page, link to that even (think itch can even generate a forum infrastructure for you)
  • Regarding the OP, this is puberty level feud fantasy type of post, makes me feel a bit for the people in ZAGD depending on his judgement.
  • @LittleBear Agreed, I'm super happy that there's a lot of people making games in South Africa, and following that passion is more important than where we do it and with whom.

    I hope the negativity can stop soon :/
  • He just declared war, negativity won't go away from his side.
  • edited
    Many of us have way more followers on Twitter or Facebook than his little Facebook group... so I don't really see any reason to feel threatened if we're comparing social media credentials.

    I do feel the indignation of having a stranger pooping on our front door, of course. And if you're angry right now (which I understand), then I challenge you to do something about it. Make a prototype, post feedback in some threads, make some art and music, and post it.

    Because, to me, that's how I define a community's success. What's our output, and how do we encourage and help each other grow? Quality > quantity any day (except maybe with sales :D).
  • I suggest we do not respond when Julian shares his negative, subjective opinions on MGSA.
    (It will also cause the thread to move off the front page when there’s no replies.)

    I suspect he keeps posting here to get us to respond negatively towards him, providing him with evidence of his opinions of us.

    It seems no matter how civil or understanding we are, he has already made up his mind and nothing we say can change it.


    "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


    .
  • edited
    @critic Yeah, though I don't think this is necessarily about two sides. (I'm not sure if you meant "side" as in the "side" @Julian represents, or just @Julian... sorry if this reply misses the mark).

    @Julian is obviously feeling very negative towards this community, but that doesn't mean that this community needs to feel negatively towards ZAGD, nor that ZAGD as a whole feels negatively towards this community (as far as I'm aware, most of the people who have joined ZAGD barely know about MGSA).

    @Julian is angry, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to be. (and the last thing we need is a rift between South African developers).
  • I cant help but think Julian is a bit misguided as to who is attacking him.

  • Everyone here should have learned ages ago to stop feeding the trolls and blanket ignore any and all posts of this type. Please do so in the future and stop fueling fires with your oxygen!
  • ZAGD's Julian tries to spin a narrative that implies MGSA is a privileged white capitalist forum that follows international trends.

    I don't see how a capitalist system is an unwelcome thing in SA? ZAGD's Julian certainly doesn't speak for the whole country. And the race of the members doesn't matter either. (Anyone is free and welcome to be a part of MGSA)

    However, this narrative by ZAGD's Julian is very ironic to me, because back when he wanted me to sign up as a CSO, All the prospective ZAGD corporate members were white, and the goal of this membership was to find ways to generate profit and rules were being discussed on how the profit will be shared between the corporate members... hmmm.
    Thanked by 1AngryMoose
  • This is NOT the first thread I want to have jumping to my attention first thing in the morning >___<

    This is basically spam.
    Thanked by 2mattbenic critic
  • I'm closing this thread, it's serves no purpose beyond being deliberately inflammatory and it goes against the entire ethos of our community values. I've messaged the following to @Julian

    "Hi Julian,

    We have closed the thread "ZAGD declares WAR on MGSA" as it is in violation of our forum rules and serves no purpose beyond being inflammatory and divisive. I draw your attention to our forum rules found here: http://makegamessa.com/discussion/4108/forum-guidelines-faq

    Specifically the following clause (my emphasis in bold) :
    "Remain respectful of other members at all times - All posts should be professional and courteous. You have every right to disagree with your fellow community members and explain your perspective. However, you are not free to attack, degrade, insult, or otherwise belittle them or the quality of this community. All people on the forums including admins and moderators are expected to adhere to this rule."

    We work on a warning system, and please consider this your first warning. A further breach of these forums rules will result in a permanent ban.

    I am troubled that you have allegedly been receiving harassing messages on Facebook from some of our community members, if you feel particularly aggrieved I would ask that you send me the names of the people involved, along with the screenshots of the messages in question and we will take appropriate action if possible. Please send these either as DM to me or email them to admin@makegamessa.com.

    Since joining the community you have only created posts to promote your Facebook Group, and only responded to those posts in question, which has increasingly become more antagonistic over time. I would encourage you to participate more fully in the community and make use of vast knowledge and experience that can be found with our community members. If you are located in Cape Town or Johannesburg I would encourage you to attend one of monthly meet-ups and get some face-to-face time with the local community members.

    I wish you all the best with your future endeavors and look forward to see you and the Natural Studio guys at rAge this year.

    In closing I remind you that you are welcome to continue posting and interacting on the forums, provided you abide by the rules that we have in place."
This discussion has been closed.