[prototype] Word game / RPG ... Thing
Hey guys
I'm working on a prototype for a new game and wanted to get some feedback/ideas for it.
So the whole game will (currently) be a sort of top-down rpg with a word/spelling based combat system. For now I'm just fiddling with the combat system to see if there's any merit/fun in that idea. I'm trying to decide between a turn based or real time system. They both have merits but end up delivering distinctly different experiences, so I'm wondering which people will enjoy more.
Here's a link to some builds for it:
Windows
Web
You can change between the combat types by clicking the buttons in the bottom left. You attack by clicking letters on the grid to form words and then click "Attack".
Which do you think is better? Is it fun or can you see it being fun? Any other feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Gavin
Edit: I've moved this to project status: makegamessa.com/discussion/3115/project-spell-caster-working-title
I'm working on a prototype for a new game and wanted to get some feedback/ideas for it.
So the whole game will (currently) be a sort of top-down rpg with a word/spelling based combat system. For now I'm just fiddling with the combat system to see if there's any merit/fun in that idea. I'm trying to decide between a turn based or real time system. They both have merits but end up delivering distinctly different experiences, so I'm wondering which people will enjoy more.
Here's a link to some builds for it:
Windows
Web
You can change between the combat types by clicking the buttons in the bottom left. You attack by clicking letters on the grid to form words and then click "Attack".
Which do you think is better? Is it fun or can you see it being fun? Any other feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Gavin
Edit: I've moved this to project status: makegamessa.com/discussion/3115/project-spell-caster-working-title
Thanked by 1Squidcor
Comments
Bookworm Adventures was great. Anything in the same vein is awesome :)
I think I prefer the real-time version. One of the things I dislike about Spelltower is the way that how well you do is often a function of how long you're willing to spend searching for the best possible move. Real-time solves that problem and has you thinking quickly - which I enjoy.
I'd love to see a spell system with some depth. For example, you could randomly assign elements to each tile, and thus incentivise players to use tiles that target their opponents weaknesses.
I also think it would be cool if you could string words together into combos. Perhaps you could find three earth words in a row and fire them off all at once to cast a healing spell. Maybe two letter words could be a block that buys you some time etc.
Also, I like how polished it feels already :)
@Squidcor A spell system with depth is something I've been pondering too. Just not sure how to do it, especially in the real time system. Things are so hectic and desperate in that mode that trying to use specific letters to set up a strategy might be a little too overwhelming. What do you think? I was thinking of changing the mechanic up to make the words you form fill up a mana pool that you use to cast spells from, but I worry that you'd lose that moment of excitement you get when you make a big/hard word and hit "attack" and do massive damage directly from that. Might be a bit lame if that triumph then just filled a pool you could use to do something else later. Any thoughts? What did you mean by "earth words"? As for the block, currently when you make a word, the length of the word adds time back on to the enemy's attack timer. Yeah it is quite polished :) Not because I think the idea is fully formed, but I think polish adds a great deal to the game feel so affects how you evaluate a prototype. Also, I like polishing ;)
I think also the market for spelling games prefers turn-based. I might be wrong about that (I don't play a lot of spelling games).
Just as a random thought... you could maybe include both systems...
Like if you use a "Z", or a highlighted letter, or get an enemy onto low health (for instance), it sets up a temporary real-time Cast-As-Many-Spells-As-Possible bonus event. And during this event the player (for 15 seconds or so) gets to make as many words as she can and deal as much damage as damage as possible until the time runs out.
Kind of like the way one-finger-death-punch occasionally changes the rules, which help keeps things fresh, and also varies the intensity.
I agree that dealing damage from making the word is going to be more directly satisfying.
One avenue for more depth is having different enemy states. Maybe the enemy at first has a shield, which when knocked off leaves the enemy temporarily stunned... so then saving the "Z" for when the enemy is stunned and takes extra damage might be a good move. For example.
I don't know much about spelling game conventions (I did buy my mother Bookworm Adventures, and have played some Spelltower)... but maybe some enemies have certain weaknesses to certain letters... and hitting them with those letters returns special letters to you that can be used as wildcards, or as any vowel, or something. That way maybe over the course of a battle you can kind of ramp up your ability to make bigger words.
Maybe also the more letters you use, the more stun damage you do to the enemies. A strategy might be to make longer words to get an enemy stunned, and then use the heavy damage letters to deal more damage while the enemy is vulnerable.
Also just wanted to agree with others that the polish is really impressive at this early stage :) I like this idea... I like the concept of the value of the letters doing something different to the length of the words... it's quite elegant...
But in the real-time mode the real challenge is making words fast. The players' combat effectiveness is going to be almost entirely determined by that, so the strategy might be lost (as the player is unlikely going to be weighing various possible word choices up against each other). I guess if the length of the word had an exponential effect, a very noticeable effect, it might encourage players to focus on making longer words in real-time (maybe for the possibility of stun-locking an opponent).
For example, maybe your enemy could occasionally cast a shield spell, thus requiring the player to try build a fire spell to take down the shield. Or maybe certain opponents very short cool-down times and semi-regular ice spells are the only way to contain them. Y'know, stuff like that. Indeed. You are the polish master :)
Some ideas and some random thoughts from my first play through::
- You could have words actually linked to the battle or associated with something. For example "love" "hug" "heal" etc could all be part of heal spells, while aggressive words could damage the opponent. You could even have combos , like 3 aggressive words in a row could have an extra effect. Neutral words would just be standard, but would be fun to "unlock" all the linked words.
- Combo effects on the length of the words, so if you get 3 3-letter words in a row, you get a combo effect.
- Time Limit on the turn, which in turn adds to bonus or damage depending on how quick you are. Also would add tension to the battle.
- Joker tiles, or extra effects, like a letter with a 2X damage or a blank tile.
@BlackShipsFilltheSky Yeah, most people I've shown it to seem to prefer the real time. Interesting thought to have both systems appear at certain times, but from feedback so far I think it's rather have the real time be the default since that's what people are enjoying most. Really interesting idea of having the enemies weak to certain letters. Hadn't considered that. Yeah, I feel that at the moment the length of the word isn't rewarding enough. The player should feel way better about finding an extra "s" for "knots" instead of "knot" than they currently do. Maybe a damage multiplier? Do you think stunning the enemy is better than adding time back onto their timer? I'm just worried that the enemy could be stunned definitely.
@squidcor I see what you mean about the elements attached to letters. It's something to think about, just not sure how well it'd work in practice. I think people would be concentrating on finding words in the small grid and asking them to then keep track of what element the letters of those words are may be too much. Maybe I could do something like whatever colour your word starts with is the final spell's element. ie: Word starts with a red letter, it's a fire spell. Yeah, that's my concern... 'cos that's pretty much what it would be. Puzzle Quest does this and I feel it makes the spell casting a bit weak and far less satisfying that when you make matches that directly damage the enemy.
I like the idea of enemies having different states that makes you adjust your strategy, just not sure how to go about providing that strategy. :/
@iceblademush Thanks :) I have thought about the whole linked words thing (ala Scribblenauts) but I think the sheer volume of work required to link words to effects would be too much. My other concern would be that casting spells would largely come down to a random chance that the needed word appeared and wouldn't really allow any strategy. It would just be lucky that it appeared at that time. Maybe if it was used in a way that it would just be a nice bonus instead of necessary to your core strategy...
Combos are a cool idea. Will just have to find a way to give the player feedback about that to make it clear what's happening.
I'm definitely going to have tiles with special effects like extra damage. Hadn't considered blank tiles. That's a good one.
Do you guys think it would be clunky to have a spell book on the left that you set an active spell from, and whatever spell is active is what fires when you form a word? It seems a little clunky but would provide the player a far greater degree of control over what spells get fired.
I think the thing that's going to make this fly is adding effects to individual word tiles. There are a couple of ways to do that, but I really like the idea of tiles that could edit other tiles around them (mostly bombs that leave behind an indicator when they're put in a word and then explode, destroying tiles next to them so that you can clear useless Js, when that word is fired off) but there's also all sorts of standard fantasy damage tropes you could use. I really liked how BWA gave you different effect tiles according to how long the word you made was.
BWA also had extra damage and effects if you made specific types of word, but that was rather hard to do right. Even if an enemy was vulnerable to "metal" words, you weren't guaranteed that you'd get pieces that would allow you to make anything that matched a word about metal.
As far as I can tell BWA (at least the deluxe version I've got) doesn't have real time effects. The poison only hurts you when you take your turn, but having your health slowly depleting with each word you made makes your try to make the best words you can. The idea of bomb tiles and being able to alter the board is pretty cool. I don't remember any effect tiles in BWA. What kinds of things were you thinking of?
1) Real Time is more intense, and that's good. I agree with most of what's been said above, and think the whole game should be real-time, not turn-based. It adds to the challenge of it. If you wanted it to be turn-based, though, maybe make the enemy's attacks use up letters on the board, so that you can't "stockpile" good letters in the hope of using them later. The enemy might use up the ones you had saved, requiring you to use-it-or-lose-it. In fact, I think that would be a good thing even in Real Time, although I can foresee it causing frustration when you've pieced a word together and a fraction of a second before you can click "Attack", the enemy attacks and removes some of the letters you were using...
2) Regarding the "elemental words" above: why not take on some of the aspects of Puzzle Quest. Your character can have buffing spells that increase the damage value of all or certain letters for a given number of turns (the next three E's you use do 2 damage instead of 1), or reduces damage from enemy attacks or certain letter values (the next three E's used against you do 0 damage instead of 1), or heals you based on the value of certain letters (when you use an E, you get healed by 1).
These spells can be launched when you have enough mana, and mana is collected by using letters that have mana on them (i.e., when the board gains new letters, each letter has a % chance of becoming a "mana letter", and will fill up your mana bar by 1 or 2 or whatever when that letter is used to make an attack).
To take more from Puzzle Quest, you could make different "spell classes", so that direct damage spells, positive buff spells, negative buff spells and healing spells all require different colours of mana, and you must collect these colours from the board (i.e. as different from above, EVERY letter is now a "mana letter", and you must try use the colours you need to make words, in order to get the mana you're collecting). I think I'd prefer the former, but that would require a finer crafting of different character classes, making sure that not every class has access to the same types of spells/effects.
3) RPG elements is a must for this: the spells will help with this, but if you can get items to help you along the way as permanent bonuses, it'd give the player a greater investment in their hero. I want to pimp my little wizard/alchemist dude out with some swanky red robes and horned black helmet... The gear could act as permanent spells (E's do 0.2 damage extra), or board expanders (4x4 board becomes 4x5), or better chance of getting "mana letters" (15%, up from 10%), or just giving your character more health.
4) I'm interested in what the story for this is going to be. Obviously there won't be a huge emphasis on it, but you could have a lot of fun with something like this, particularly if you treat the whole game with a hefty dose of irreverence (and the art style fits this).
5) What names have you considered? I've heard tales of Scrabble being very toothy when it comes to getting close to their trademark (which throws out my sword-y ideas of "Scabble" or "Scrabbard"), but "Words and Worsery" or other punny names could be cool, I reckon. :D
Really cool little game that I think could be really, really cooler!
1) Yeah, I think I'll make it real-time as that seems to be what most people enjoy more, and I want to avoid what squidcor was talking about where the longer a player is willing to invest time-wise is proportional to their likelihood of success. I have been thinking about having the enemy playing off the same grid as the player, but do worry it would screw any strategy the player might have been able to piece together. The main reason I liked the idea was that seeing the words the enemy makes would act as a sort of educational/teaching aspect and would help the player to better their game. Not sure how to achieve that without the enemies forming words...
2) So, what I was thinking of doing was to make the forming of words the attack and have potions/items as buffs. The potions would either be found when defeating opponents or while exploring the map or could be crafted from ingredients found in the level, as a way to tie the battle mode into the exploring mode a bit more. Your idea of having letters give you mana as a side effect is a cool idea too. Something the think about...
3) Totally. RPG elements are totally happening ;)
4) I'm also interested in what the story for this is going to be :P
5) Honestly, I have very few ideas for a name. The vein I'm thinking in at the moment is a pun with the word "spell" in some way (due to the two ways it's applicable in the game) but I haven't come up with anything good yet.
Glad you liked it and thanks again for the ideas.
What do you think?