Support Boobjam, A Game Jam About Boobs

Fengol

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/07/31/support-boobjam-a-game-jam-about-boobs

"Instead of complaining about the portrayal of breasts in games, why don’t we make more games about them? Specifically, why don’t we make games about all the different ways that we encounter them, and not just as some jiggle physics in Dead or Alive?"

"What if a video game promoted breast health, narrated the terror of illness, or described the process of developing breasts, especially from a transwoman’s perspective? What if a game simply described bra-shopping? (It’s tough! It’s expensive!)"

Having a wife who went through a period of painful breasts during pregnancy and then her breastfeeding our daughter, boobs definitely took on an extra meaning for me.

I'm keen to think up something simple for this jam and those of you who sprout "games for change" now have an opportunity to do so!

Tuism

This is one of those "only a ginger can call a ginger ginger" cases... Imagine if all of the same words were used for the proposal, but it was said by a man, imagine the fire it would draw :)

But it definitely sounds intriguing!

OMG the pun-o-meter is exploding in the comments :)

Karuji

Tuism worry not I am sure there will be an ample supply of games of overweight straight white cis males with moobs.

Also http://kotaku.com/behold-ridiculous-penis-physics-966185822

EvanGreenwood

Tuism said:

This is one of those "only a ginger can call a ginger ginger" cases... Imagine if all of the same words were used for the proposal, but it was said by a man, imagine the fire it would draw :)

I think the proposal was said by a man. The author talks about having a wife who had to breast feed their daughter.

[Edit]Ah it looks like that quote wasn't made by the creator of the proposal.

But let me just say, there would be no fire. It's not a sexist proposal, it's kind of the opposite of that. Men aren't being persecuted for being sexist when there isn't a legitimate reason, that isn't a thing.

bevis

I GOT A GAME, OCCULOUS RIFT MOTOBOATING SIMULATOR, AMIRITE? ;(

Tuism

No, I don't think the proposal is sexist at all, and hence I said if it were said by a man - I think it would alter the perception thereof dramatically. I'm not saying that it *is* sexist, or any man who would say it would be sexist, I think the reception would have changed a lot.

But that doesn't really change anything for this, it's just a musing on the subject :)

The new kinect: Give people boobs. Give men boobs. Give girls bigger boobs. Add boobs to things. Make people think about it. Put them in a crowd. Have people laugh at their funny boobs. Turn the table... Hmmm...

WelshPixie

I think it's kinda sad that, if the proposal was made initially by a man, it would absolutely have earned more derision than as stands (although judging by the RPS comments, Jenn Frank is catching enough flack for the suggestion too!). Maybe that is incentive enough to participate in this jam - inundate the scene with such vast amounts of cleavage that boobs are no longer taboo(b) for even men to waffle about. ^.^

EvanGreenwood

WelshPixie said:

I think it's kinda sad that, if the proposal was made initially by a man, it would absolutely have earned more derision than as stands

I really don't think it would have. I don't think we live in a world of small minded people forcing political correctness on everyone, but you seem to be characterizing the people concerned with gender portrayal as that.

WelshPixie

@BlackShipsFilltheSky I'm one of 'the people concerned with gender portrayal' and frequently opine about how women are represented in videogames, and I'm also someone who wouldn't consider the gender of the OP of 'let's have a boob-related game jam'. In fact I'm kinda fed up of the extremes to which political correctness are being taken, and I know loads of people, including women and including 'the people concerned with gender portrayal' who are with me on that and would take the suggestion on its own merits without bringing the gender of the OP into question. However, my experience of the internet from the particular angles I view it at have lead me to believe that if a man had voiced that suggestion, it would have been met with more vociferous protest. That's not a sweeping characterisation; it's an observation based on my personal experiences. In my obviously tiny corner of the twittersphere, that I share with many vocal feminists (of all genders) and members of the LGBTQ community who would perhaps have a stronger voice on 'boob game jam' topics, I see 'small minded people forcing political correctness' frequently. That might just be the area of the 'net that I inhabit, though. All anyone can do when forming opinions is to form them from their own personal experiences, and those are mine.

EvanGreenwood

@WelshPixie On my side of the net I see a lot of attacks on those concerned about gender portrayal.

Like here: http://www.makegamessa.com/discussion/413

So I've got a different perspective I guess, and am very wary of people using http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawFeminist to justify their views.

So I'm sorry for lumping you into that group and jumping to conclusions.

I honestly think that the overreaching of political correctness is so minor a thing as to be negligible (certainly in its effect on creative output, it's not like games are being stifled into conservatively clothing the women portrayed in them), but over-political correctness is disproportionately brought up in cases where a person wants to use a straw-feminist in order to defend or ignore sexist content.

In my experience the intention of bringing up over-political correctness nearly always to be that of delegitimizing real concerns. Which I feel is far more damaging to society than over-political correctness itself.

WelshPixie

Haha, editing after you edited yours ;p

Oh absolutely, I see loads of misandry and that's absolutely what it would be if a man suggested the boob jam game and people kicked up more of a fuss about it. I see misandry ALL THE FREAKING TIME in the social media and it bugs the crap out of me - people I really wouldn't expect it from.

Being a woman who both exists on the internet and plays games on the internet, I encounter a helluva lot of misogyny. I get rape threats (offers?) on YouTube monthly, messages to get back to the kitchen weekly, assumed to be a young boy (because feminine voice on the internet can only be a young boy, and not - gasp - a girl, right?) almost daily. Fortunately, though, for every one of those comments I get, I get tens more supportive comments from male friends and strangers and I know, beyond a doubt, that those people leaving me those misogynist comments are in a huge minority. Men are not inherently bigots any more than women are inherently feminists. If I point out one of the offensive comments I've had and someone replies along the lines of 'eh, men are all idiots', I'll hurriedly and forcefully oppose that notion. I'm very acutely aware that, at least in my neck of the online woods, men aren't bigots. But I still believe that if a man suggested the boob jam game, all the people I see who love attacking men any chance they get would be all over it with bludgeons.

Tuism

(The fact that the sameish things were said by me and WelshPixie but received kinda differently goes a ways towards proving the point...)

Wait, no, re-read that and nevermind, @blackshipsfillthesky you're being pretty consistent, nevermind, false alarm >_<
(then again you're a very very rare individual, I gotta say!)

But I still think that people would receive the same statement with a different reception coming from me, or her.

WelshPixie

All this post-comment-editing is making my head explode. :p

Anyway, maybe I'll write a little IF game about the troubles of finding a comfortable 'sleeping on your front' position. It's the little (big) things...

EvanGreenwood

lol. Sounds like a fun/uncomfortable/hilarious game :p Would upgrading to a Tempur-foam mattress be considered cheating?

I'm willing to concede that there would be a difference in reception if the idea came from a man. Though I think the hostility to it would be from an even more minor group than the minor group of men that are actually misogynists, and that hostility would be largely invisible to the gaming community.

I'd expect the biggest difference would be that RockPaperShotgun (or other publications) would never have posted the idea at all, because without a female voice they wouldn't have felt confident backing the concept.

I have to concede that is sad.

Tuism

I bet there are things that we as men just don't know and that Tempur-foam mattress doesn't make frontal sleeping any better... though, erm, I've not mastered frontal sleeping AT ALL. I don't know how anyone could do it without suffocating or waking up with a bad, bad neck.

I once suspected that girls could do that, but obviously I was wrong...

Fengol

The comments about having a wife with painful breasts who breastfeed my daughter are my own (hence it was not in quotes).

I didn't breastfeed my daughter, I apologize for the ambiguity.

WelshPixie

Having only ever slept on spring mattresses I'm afraid I can't comment. If I had that sort of cash to throw around I'd go buy a foam mattress for testing purposes before penning my little thing. On the other hand, if I had that sort of cash to throw around I'd spend it on things like an NVidia Titan ;p Maybe I'll visit the local bed store and tell them I need to zone out on a bunch of their demo mattresses in the name of scientific experimentation. Yup yup.

Edit - I give you Sleeping With Boobs. It's not very long but I feel it about covers everything. :p

Fengol

I nearly missed your game because edits don't update the thread!

Tuism

lol, as I clicked for the 2nd time I realised how it goes :) gg :)

Malaise

Well uhmm, I'm curious to see what would come out of a game jam like this. My guess is, if the vast majority of participants are men the result could come out... distasteful, and to a female audience it may appear vulgar. So it would be interesting to see what comes out and what people have to say. Personally, this is not something I'd participate in, it makes me cringe.

Now, if this was a willy game jam where the participants were mainly female... I'd still cringe, and probably not participate either haha!

WelshPixie

@aodendaal - Yeah, I'm wary of double-posting, I know some places frown on it and don't want to accidentally break any forum etiquette ^.^ Figured it'd get bumped by someone else eventually, heheh.

Jaco's just doing some tweaks on it with his mad coding skillz that I don't possess, to give it a bit more direction and an actual (eventual...) ending. When that's done maybe I'll post it as a separate thread :)

Thaumaturge

@Malaise:

My guess is, if the vast majority of participants are men the result could come out... distasteful, and to a female audience it may appear vulgar.

I'm not sure that I agree, given the stated nature of the jam: I'm inclined to guess that there are plenty of male developers who are perfectly capable of creating thoughtful, tasteful works about breasts, even if the majority of those around them are also male.

I'm not saying that I think that there would likely be no distasteful entries, or even just few, just that I hope and like to think that male developers are not as commonly insensitive as you seem to imply.

Tuism

You know, what would be a really cool idea, as a REAL LIFE thought experiment, is to hide the gender of the makers of each game until, say, 2/3 weeks later. And see if any perception changes between knowing and not knowing who made it.

Gender bias comes as much in perception as in content :)

WelshPixie

And see if any perception changes between knowing and not knowing who made it.

YES. Going to show this idea to Jenn ;p

Tuism

Wait, who's Jenn? I feel like I started watching some series on episode 5.

WelshPixie

Jenn Frank, the woman who suggested the idea in the first place and who's orchestrating the whole thing.

http://twitter.com/jennatar

Tuism

Ah nevermind, I did my research and found who she was :) First name basis all round, oh indie world :)

(ninja'ed :P)

WelshPixie

Here you go!

https://twitter.com/jennatar/status/363340587077861376

Thaumaturge

That's an excellent idea, Tuism, I do believe! ^_^

Tuism

Thanks @thaumaturge! :) gender studies are pretty interesting, especially in testing the theories! I wonder if there's any easy code world code that can be added to keep anonymity and then unlock it all at the same time later, to save her some moderation headaches :)