Go forward? Or back... to the drawing board?

edited in Questions and Answers
This is some barf worthy developer screen capture nevertheless early feedback is what I am looking for.

Comments

  • Hey man, I was also into making a VR dogfighting thing, though I built mine in Daydream so it was 3dof heads and one 3dof controller instead of Vive's 6dof all round environment.

    First thing I'll say is I have no idea how the controls work so I can't test that, which is probably the most important thing about a prototype like this. And your telling me how the controls work also doesn't really help as the feel of it is pivotal.

    The UI also doesn't feedback much about the way the controls work. And I can't see the hand controllers or anything like that being present, so I'm guessing all the controls are via buttons rather than using VR's affordances? Which kinda defeats the point of having intuitive hand-tracked controllers?

    Going into a tumble is deadly in VR. On a related note, I would also say I didn't see the player craft collide into anything - I've learned how collision is handled is life and death to a VR experience.

    Again, I can only make guesses as the video itself doesn't tell me much.
    Thanked by 1Moga
  • edited
    Tuism said:
    Hey man, I was also into making a VR dogfighting thing, though I built mine in Daydream so it was 3dof heads and one 3dof controller instead of Vive's 6dof all round environment.

    First thing I'll say is I have no idea how the controls work so I can't test that, which is probably the most important thing about a prototype like this. And your telling me how the controls work also doesn't really help as the feel of it is pivotal.

    The UI also doesn't feedback much about the way the controls work. And I can't see the hand controllers or anything like that being present, so I'm guessing all the controls are via buttons rather than using VR's affordances? Which kinda defeats the point of having intuitive hand-tracked controllers?

    Going into a tumble is deadly in VR. On a related note, I would also say I didn't see the player craft collide into anything - I've learned how collision is handled is life and death to a VR experience.

    Again, I can only make guesses as the video itself doesn't tell me much.
    Thank you @Tuism! Your comment is much appreciated!

    The controls are currently using the Oculus Rift 6dof hands for Pitch, Yaw, Roll, Throttle and Guns(VRTK). Pitch/Yaw/Roll are controlled by the thumbs sticks while throttle and shooting are through the buttons and triggers. There will be 'avatar hands' to provide feedback to the user, which will also be able to "press" buttons in the cockpit. Not sure whether these will be 'detached' hands or kinematic-ally linked to the character avatar. Weapon systems are aimed with head tracking. So I am trying to take advantage of all the inputs possible. The game also intends to support 3rd party flight controls like Thrustmaster HOTAS through an input manager.

    The UI is mostly placeholder as the cockpit design is being worked out, the only functioning component is the flight director(nav ball). There will be UI to indicate the amount of input from Pitch, Yaw, Roll and Throttle along with the Non input based feedback like Ammo, Shields, Orbital Elements, Radar Altitude, Ground Speed and more. The aim for the UI feel is something between Kerbal Space Program, War Thunder and Elite dangerous.

    The TUMBLE: After making Critical Gravity (still in alpha on Steam) I have become immune to the tumble in VR. Not saying I would like to endure a constant tumble or that it is cool, but it is not as bad as you make it sound. During flight in War Thunder and Kerbal Space Program you can induce tumbles and flat spins that have the same effect. They are nevertheless components of the game play and actually add a sense of danger to flight. I get it though, its not an experience that most users would relish but I plan on keeping it. If it can happen in the real world.... puke or not....

    Collision : In the video I eventually collide with the planet's superstructure during the attack phase.. minute 2:40. The ship simply hits the wall and is dead stopped, it does not explode yet, and I keep going. Of course, in game collision would damage or destroy your skip. Actually this dovetails into the larger picture of collisions in general which are tricky will small projectiles moving hundred of meter per second hitting huge colliders like planets...

    I know the video does not explain much. Would it be helpful to post a development video of the pipeline and game scope?

    Thank you Tuism!

  • edited
    Like, your explanation of the controls is still pretty much useless to me from over here, like I said, "your telling me how the controls work also doesn't really help as the feel of it is pivotal."

    I definitely would say it doesn't matter at all if the dev or ALL VR devs in the world are immune to tumble in VR. What you're making something for is not yourself. Yes you can target the a smaller subsection of an already small market (VR owners), so if you want to do that, you better be damn sure the rest of the game is up to the standard those who are a niche of a niche would want. That's your choice, I say if the game can work without it, all the better. If not, then so be it. It's your design decision. And I think "because it's realistic" isn't really a gameplay decision. A truly realistic space fighter will be completely terrible to play.... I tried building completely realistic thrust systems. Frictionless space flight is terrible to control. So no, realism is not part of my design desires.

    Okay so you handle collision by stopping dead. That's not the default setting in most games involving movement - cars bounce off walls. I'd probably feel the game was broken if I'm going super fast and just stop dead if I brush the wall.

    No, I don't want to see pipeline or scope. That doesn't interest me. I want to see gameplay that I can understand, and that takes UI work. Or I want to try the game, which I can't (I don't even have a Vive so). So your job, if you're looking for feedback, is to try to show the game in ways that can be understood. That's a good exercise to keep in mind.

    There's VR meetup, might be a thing you want to attend to get some hands-on feedback :) http://makegamessa.com/discussion/5473/jozi-vr-meetup-october
    Thanked by 1Moga
  • Thank you Tuism! I'm taking your points to heart.




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