Video to Google (regarding merchant accounts)

edited in General
As I'm sure you all know, we're in the process of porting Desktop Dungeons to mobile. The intention was to sell it on both the iOS app store, and the google play store ... but not being able to make a google merchant account means we need to find alternate means to get it onto android devices while still getting paid.

I've had the idea for a while that the most effective way to reach out to google, and spread the word among devs/players in other countries would be to make a video.

The video would consist of me, or some other dev, explaining what the problem is, ending with a single phrase request like 'please google, let us get paid', followed by many short shots of other devs saying the same request.

We would link to those devs' websites in the description and via annotations.

Now obviously the best case scenario is that this goes viral, and puts some pressure on google, and the worst case scenario is it gets totally ignored.

So, what I need to know is:
Who is interested in taking part in this?
What would be a good phrase for everyone to say?

Comments

  • I'm keen to take part, and I'm pretty sure the rest of Clockwork Acorn would be keen too. Would the idea be for companies to do it together or as individuals? Individuals will help with the numbers, but companies may be more honest and potentially kinda cool to have some variation.

    Why not try get some international devs to take part too? I'm sure there are at least a couple that might help, and that also gives the idea another avenue for marketing.

    I'll think a bit more about a phrase we can use.
  • We're on board. The general feeling here is "getting paid is nice." :P
  • Great idea, this is obviously one of the biggest problems that we collectively face, and worst yet, there doesn't really seem to be any decent, general workarounds. So it's good to see some action around it.

    Some thoughts:

    1. Is it important to mention different countries, in volume? So a sequence of however many people saying:
    "Please Google, let South Africans get paid."
    then a sequence of many "Please Google, let Moroccans get paid."
    etc etc, so that it especially highlights that this is a problem not just exclusive to one context?

    The pros of this is that it might drive more involvement from an international community, gaining more numbers/sympathy/exposure.

    The cons are that maybe we *are* the only countries that are affected by this. Or maybe the problem across different countries are so vast that to include them in one campaign would just get the campaign laughed off the table for being naive and silly. It might also be better to drive a single consistent line rather than many lines (even if it's just the country name that swaps)

    2. Google is very big on connecting people on a grassroot level, or at least that's how their marketing comes across. Could we hijack some of that kind of marketing somehow to drive the message home that it is definitely about the grassroots, and it's hard to develop if we don't have their help.

    3. "We would all be Google Merchants if you'd only let us"
    Probably too long.
  • And my axe! (I'm in).
  • Im keen. Would like to maybe say how demotivating it can be as a developer to discover that the only option to make money is via ads on google play store. (Phrased better tho)
  • I'm glad people seem to be on board.

    I was thinking it would have more impact if every shot was one person, and in the case of a whole company, we could just group them together in the ordering.

    @tuism: I think it makes sense for us right now to keep it a South African video. We can definitely reach out to devs in other countries facing the same problem and encourage them to do the same thing. Then we could link to them, and have them link back to us.

    I'm currently thinking "Google, why won't you pay us?" sums things up nicely
  • Would it be too much to do a parody of sorts of "starving devs in africa"?
  • "Brangelina won't adopt us, we need your help Google"
    Thanked by 1Kobusvdwalt9
  • We must also realise that this does not just affect south african game devs but also those that write normal mobile apps.
  • "We make games, please let us sell them"
  • @Zaphire: So, I realise this affects everyone that wants to make apps. I think it makes sense to mention it in the video. I also think that the resources we have here at makegames let's us make a compelling video targeting video game fans and devs.

    @francoisvn: I really like that as a slogan
  • If the video emphasises quality of content also, that'd be good. "look at the cool factor it adds to have our stuff on your store"
    Thanked by 2dammit dislekcia
  • I just had a thought - there's a lot of this push factor - let us sell our stuff - being considered.

    I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I WANT THIS ON ANDROID!!" <-- replace "THIS" with whichever game. This is quite an important thing, as it demonstrates that there are people who want this to come true, in a kickstarter supporter kind of way.

    Can we leverage that sentiment and add more volume to the campaign?
  • We are keen from Gamelancer!
  • Just throwing in two cents here. I think its great to try and motivate for this, however has anyone investigated why google does not offer merchant account in SA yet? I have a sneaky feeling it might be related to our very annoying exchange control + tax laws (same reason paypal took forever to be set up in SA).
  • Just throwing in two cents here. I think its great to try and motivate for this, however has anyone investigated why google does not offer merchant account in SA yet? I have a sneaky feeling it might be related to our very annoying exchange control + tax laws (same reason paypal took forever to be set up in SA).
    Question is tho why do they support Admob accounts?
  • Just throwing in two cents here. I think its great to try and motivate for this, however has anyone investigated why google does not offer merchant account in SA yet? I have a sneaky feeling it might be related to our very annoying exchange control + tax laws (same reason paypal took forever to be set up in SA).
    This is the question that I've asked the head of games at Google. All I got back was "You can't create a Merchant Account from South Africa" no other reason was forthcoming. I suspect that it has to do with the same exchange control issues that made Paypal (and every other internet payment platform) uncomfortable, but we don't know that for sure...

    In related news, Kickstarter has stopped using Amazon Payments and is now using Stripe. Which also doesn't support South African merchant accounts either, so we're still in the dark. But it might be an idea to start poking Stripe to see if they'll change that anytime soon.

  • @dislekcia - I regularly receive google adword payments from google. That's fine for South Africa so it can't be exchange control. surely? (admitedly it's posted to me, I receive a physical cheque in the mail).
  • edited
    clive said:
    @dislekcia - I regularly receive google adword payments from google. That's fine for South Africa so it can't be exchange control. surely? (admitedly it's posted to me, I receive a physical cheque in the mail).
    Nope, it's exchange control and local banking escrow rules. Being mailed a cheque is very different to being paid directly into your bank account and they trigger completely different systems within banks and tax regimes.

    We have to have a standing agreement with the Reserve Bank to be able to pay our US team members, even then they have to invoice us so that we can prove that these transactions aren't capital flight. Try mentioning the words "royalty payment" around a bank manager and see the weird stuff they say, it's a little hilarious. But mostly sad.

    Have you seen the hoops Paypal has to jump through to allow you to get paid here in SA? Also, there is no way in hell that I want my Steam payments coming via cheques in the mail, wow. No thanks.
  • @dislekcia yea, totally, I just find it odd that one section of Google is okay with paying South Africa while another is not. And yea, paypal I'm very familiar with, it took many many years to get that here I was jumping through some serious hoops myself in the very grey legality side prior to that becoming officially allowed :/

    Paypal did eventually come though, so there's hope for Google Merchant accounts - but I doubt it'll happen short term there are simply far too many eyes on this within as well as outside of Google for word not to have spread had it been in their plans.
  • edited
    IIRC, before the "new" Admob integration run, some countries like Russia were able to sell their apps on the Play Store and get paid through Admob instead of the the Merchant Accounts, they moved those countries over to Merchant Accounts.

    Have you thought about including ordinary folk in the video too, maybe with a separate phrase like "let our devs sell"?
  • dislekcia said:
    Being mailed a cheque is very different to being paid directly into your bank account and they trigger completely different systems within banks and tax regimes.
    Google Adsense has supported EFT payments to South Africa since June 2014, though.

    Thanked by 1clive
  • Yay said:
    Google Adsense has supported EFT payments to South Africa since June 2014, though.
    And being paid by someone for a thing you're doing is considered completely different from someone else handling payments from third parties on your behalf, according to the reserve bank.

    If they're strictly EFT and not wire transfers, that probably has more to do with the local Google branch than it does with exchange control.
  • While the whole discussion about how google currently pays is interesting, it's heading a bit off topic, so let's bring it back.

    While I'm sure the reserve bank makes it difficult for google to pay us, it's not impossible, and the video is meant to put some pressure on google to figure it out.

    In the next few days I'll draft the intro part of the video, and post it here for comment. In the meantime, if anyone feels they'd rather say something different to @francoisvn's suggestion of "We make games, please let us sell them", now's the time to comment.
    Thanked by 2dammit francoisvn
  • So, I've taken some time, and gotten some feedback, and here's what I've come up with:

    Hi

    I’m Marc, and I make video games.
    I’m also from South Africa … and that means making video games is a little more difficult.

    Specifically, selling videogames on android.
    You see, right now, google won’t allow my company (which has been around for a few years) to create a google merchant account *because* we’re in South Africa.

    It’s a problem that affects game devs and other app devs too, and it’s bullshit.
    Share this video, and help us get google to sit up and take notice.

    Google, we make games, let us sell them!

    [cuts to all the devs who decide to add video to this]


    crits, comments?
    Thanked by 1damousey
  • I'm torn between wanting to add an acknowledgement around " we know it's not that simple" and keeping it nice and succinct/punchy.

    overall I like it.
    Could add a 'please' to the last line.
    Thanked by 1francoisvn
  • I like the simplicity of it (though I'm guessing when you actually say the lines out loud you might end up saying "developers" rather than "devs" as it may sound better).

    @damousey - I wonder if acknowledging that it's hard defeats the point? I mean, I'm with you and do acknowledge that they may have a huge number of hoops to jump through - but perhaps let them bring that up rather than us? This keeps us on the positive note and doesn't undermine our own message.
  • Would google not see it as rude to use words like "bullshit"?
  • edited
    dammit said:
    I wonder if acknowledging that it's hard defeats the point? I mean, I'm with you and do acknowledge that they may have a huge number of hoops to jump through - but perhaps let them bring that up rather than us? This keeps us on the positive note and doesn't undermine our own message.
    Exactly my thought
    Zaphire said:
    Would google not see it as rude to use words like "bullshit"?
    After fighting this battle for literally years it might be a disservice not to.

  • I debated whether to say bullshit or make it milder with something like "and it's time google made an effort to fix it."

  • Thing is tho we are acting like google MUST give it to us but its their company and their decision so I feel we should be approaching it more as a proposal than a complaint of why are we not supported yet
  • I was very sad the first time I found out I could not sell my game/s on Android so I feel your pain. Im just wondering whether this effort is time well spent? It may make you feel slighter better feeling you are doing something about the problem but I doubt Google will even give your video a moments notice.

    This is after all a muti billion dollar international conglomerate.

    Have a look at what @dislekcia said :
    This is the question that I've asked the head of games at Google. All I got back was "You can't create a Merchant Account from South Africa" no other reason was forthcoming.
    This attitude is not the attitude of one man but of the entire corporation.. The untouchables who do not need to explain anything to you, who will do what they want - when they want to - without any announcement or explanation.




  • This seems relevant:
    People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Thanked by 1Tuism
  • @shaderbytes: In the OP I did cover the possibility of it being completely ignored, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

    Here's a less aggressive version of the intro:

    Hi

    I’m Marc, and I make video games.
    I’m also from South Africa … and that means making video games is a little more difficult.

    Specifically, selling videogames on android.
    You see, right now, google won’t allow my company (which has been around for a few years) to create a google merchant account *because* we’re in South Africa.

    It’s a problem that affects game devs and other app devs too, we need your help to ask google to make a change.
    Share this video, spread the word, and help us make great games for you.

    Google, we make games, please let us sell them!

    [cuts to all the devs who decide to add video to this]


    Let's call this version 2.

    Please reply and let me know if you prefer version 1 or version 2.
    Thanked by 2Elyaradine dammit
  • I like the message of version 2 but the passion of version 1

    Part of this is also creating a video that people want to watch and share to give it a momentum. Maybe we should add a little humour if we remove the rantiness?

    Also, I get super picky about stuff like this, feel free to disregard. This is why I'm not a writer, I'd never make anything.
  • edited
    Quoting a man who in part was employed to be a huge critic ..
    People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Ah I see his logic .. : "don't risk to criticize while they are busy ( because they may succeed and then your negative comments will backfire ) rather wait until they fail, after all, it is much more fun to kick a man after his has fallen down on the floor.. and safer"

    haha ;)
  • A general get back on track message here:

    Please be careful of conflating criticism and nay-sayying, I feel this community is already pretty saturated in that phallacy.

    Constructing this video is where the focus is at right now. What can you add?
  • typo gold, no regrets.
    Thanked by 2Elyaradine dammit
  • OK Ok here is something positive for today then :

    I hope you video finds its way right onto the mobile phone of Larry Page or Sergey Brin just at the moment they are having some deep thoughts about what they should personally do to bring global equality to all areas of their business.. then in a light bulb moment they will think to themselves : "YES , I need to make sales on the Play store available to all South African Developers!" .. you can do it Larry .. you can do it Sergey .. make it happen ;)
  • edited
    That would be amazing! Thank you for the sentiment.
  • edited
    Any update on this?

    I just noticed an announcement in the Google Play Developer console:
    "New supported locations for merchants. You can now register as a merchant if you’re located in Azerbaijan, Iceland, Peru, or Yemen."

    I don't know how we take lower priority than Azerbaijan and Yemen, is our Reserve Bank so stubborn?
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