Legion said: Ohh.. sorry I thought this was Make Games SA.. not Make Money SA.I must have registered the wrong website.
Legion said: You see I can be a douche too... give me a reason to escalate this.I have done nothing to deserve this constant shit storm.
Karuji said:I'm not trying to dissuade you from making your game. If it pleases you to make the engine than that's simple, you're happy.I shall, however, issue you a challenge to complete a fun game. In all honesty one of the greatest experiences I have had is seeing a person have fun playing my game. So as fun as making an engine may be seeing a person having fun with your game is a scale of magnitude greater experience.
@Legion said:GAME MAKER NEVER TAUGHT ME ANYTHING... EVER.Many many years ago.QB4.5 taught me how to use ASM to expand using lib'sThat got me a job programing micro controllers.The issue those days were memory limits due to the aged DOS code it was limited to 640KB program memory.Today those limits are in the past, it takes a lot more skill than what that BASIC word makes you think, you cannot compare it to duck tape development of GM for example.
@Karuji said:As someone who make's their income from making games
@Karuji said:who make's their income
@Legion said:I'm not angry.I feel discriminated against for using what i like, I'm actually deeply depressed and disappointed.As I feel knocked in the crotch for doing what I thought was adding content to a games development website.But as I can see dislekcia just has beef with me because of a stupid miss posted PM on the NAG forum.It's best I leave and let everyone else enjoy them self's.
Legion said:I feel discriminated against for using what i like
Rigormortis said:I get the feeling that people tend to talk past each other on this forum(sometimes).
@Ancalagon said:Myself, I didnt use tools such as Unity and Game Maker precisely because I was scared of being trapped in one software ecosystem with one way of doing things and one way of solving problem X. What is problem Y comes up and the software has no way of dealing with it? I'm stuffed. With C++, I rip out the problematic component and replace it. Sure, thats not easy either, but at least its possible.There is never only one way of doing things.
Ancalogon said: Technical challenges can be hugely satisfying to overcome! All of us programmers know that. So to say he is wasting his time using QBASIC is missing the point - he is only wasting his time if he wants quick market success (or maybe market success in general).
Ancalogon said:If Makes Games SA aims to promote independent video game development, what aspects of video game development is it wanting to promote? Is it limited to certain creeds and philosophies? Is it limited to certains goals and aspirations? Does every indie developer need to aspire to commercial success? Is it limited to certain favoured development platforms?Or is it wider than just that?
And I just realized that I might be the one missing the point this time...so for the sake of proper communication...are you trying to say that the community is ostracizing people based on the tools they use?
I feel like if he had been convinced to code everything he needed from scratch in C++, the game would never have seen the light of day in 2009
it should have been obvious that Legion is not going to switch.
But I wouldnt take offense if he chose not to accept my advice
If Legion was entitled to his opinion about his tool, surely everyone is entitled to their opinion about that same tool?
Saying that "stop being critical about that thing cos that person likes it" is likening that thing to a religion. I don't agree with that mentality. Nothing is infallible.
Tuism said:This is a discussion about a certain thing. That thing is not you, QBASIC is not you, Gamemaker is not you. If they get criticized, so what?
Not only is Legion taking offense, but other members of this board are taking offense when their advice is not heeded. Why? As you say, its just a tool, so why get angry when someone doesnt use the tool you suggest? What do you care?
Why do I have this argument, every time it happens? To try and dissuade newer members from making the mistakes that have historically killed more game development efforts than anything else. This "I have chosen a technical perspective and will not make my own life easier" attitude is not new. It has also never been successful.
Nobody has been criticising you as a person! Get the fuck over yourself! You are not your ideas, you are not your tools, you are not your code output! Fucking hell, the ego on some people! (Sample of what it looks like when I'm gearing up to be angry, for future reference, does that help?)
"I have assumed that one person did this the way I'm doing it, even though I don't actually have proof of that, thus all the historical failures that used this same approach must simply have been doing it wrong. I will do it right, despite only basing things on assumptions." How does that FUCKING WORK, guy?
That's a general model, which says nothing about tools or technology. The argument you're advocating seems to demand something like this:
The thing that we're talking about is a change of attitude - the unwillingness to pre-emptively return to Step 0. To keep pushing ahead with making the game more and more playable, instead of wasting time with implementation tweaks.
Ah fuck it. I'm just being an asshole anyway, apparently. I have a game to make better.
Step 1 - Build playable prototype.Step 2 - Receive feedback and iterate. Return to Step 1.Step 3 - If game idea proves fun and has a large, enthusiastic following, consider investing more into polishing it. If game feels unrewarding or not interesting, return to Step 1 with new idea.Step 4 - Polish.Step 5 - Polish.Step 6 - Polish.... Step n - Release full game. Profit? That's up to you.