Bro Force (prototype)


  • @Tuism, after a night's sleep I don't know why I though that would make sense :/

    But I still don't get the crashes you guys get, how long do you guys play at a time? Maybe it has something to do with how long the game is running?
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    Maybe it has something to do with how long the game is running?
    This is exactly what I was talking when I mentioned my game freezing when I went AFK, I'll try time some games today and see when it freezes.

    EDIT: Nevermind that, I just got a freeze 1 minute in on level 3, while climbing up the ladder (was a 2nd/3rd level restart), and I normally get freezes on much later levels so ye...

    EDIT 2: Aaand I froze again on the same level a little later on. Hadn't died or freed any bros so not that... I'm sure it's possible to make a built game output some form of log file? Wouldn't that be of some use if you had a version that logged everything (or at least most of everything) that happens? Is it not possible to make unity log errors/warning that it would ordinary show in the console?
  • @Blackshipfilthesky you might wanna remember to always put the latest build's prototype link into the OP, so that it's easier to track whether you have the latest version or not :)

    played it again for a good 20 minutes, no crash. Hmmm.
    Thanked by 1Bensonance
  • edited
    Here's the latest build:

    I've taken out anything I thought could conceivably cause a freeze. At one point I thought the seagulls were crashing it (much like Birdemic) but if it's crashing just waiting around then... I... really... don't... understand...

    I mean... it makes it look like it must be hardware and Unity... but there are way more complicated games than this one running on way weirder hardware... this is definitely something Unity would have fixed...

    Maybe the new build fixes something?

    P.S. Thanks guys for still playing this! This is going well above and beyond the call of duty now.

    P.P.S I think Bro Hard's grenade works better now. Also, most of the problems that @D3zmodos mentioned have been fixed (not the sometimes not ducking problem, nor the invulnerable rescue bro though).
  • Ack! Sorry if anyone downloaded the 16 October one again... I meant to post the 21 October build.
  • Bad news and good news bro...

    Played it, crashed 4 minutes in. Then tried again, 2 more crashes. I screencapped 3 of them, dunno if it would be useful. I thought it might be a memory issue so I closed photoshop and browser stuff, and tried again, crashed. Then once more, 10 minutes without a crash.

    Could be a memory issue, is it a particularly hungry game? I have 3gbs (4 but running 32 bit windows 7 lol, been lazy)

    Also I have dual monitors running, only showing the one but there are two.

    Hope this helps narrowing stuff down...
    1680 x 1050 - 262K
    1680 x 1050 - 209K
    1680 x 1050 - 273K
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    You keep saying "crash", you mean a "freeze" right?

    I don't think this game is all that performance intense... and I've never heard that Unity freezes during performance intense stuff anyway...

    Unless I can reproduce this problem I'm pretty stuck. It looks like an infinite loop, but I don't know how that is possible.

    Where's the good news? (sadface)

    Thanks for the feedback though. It is super awesome of you.
  • Can a "foreach" loop become inifinite? (if maybe you add things to the list during the loop? or something, I don't think I'm doing that)
  • If I could find a machine on which it crashes... and then test the project on there... that might find it.
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    Ye it seemed to take a LOT longer than I recall (unfortunately I didnt realise that I couldn't get a start time on the process after closing it, so I dont have an exact duration) but it must have been around 10-20 minutes before I got a freeze.

    I was really trying to get it up to using 300mb of RAM but I couldn't do it (got to 296 for a very short while and then the level restarted). Though I'm fairly certain we're sure it isn't freezing due to overuse of memory? EDIT: And I just played again and got a freeze within like 30 seconds :<

    I initially thought it might be the fact that I'm running 64-bit because I played the whole game twice on my mom's PC (which is Windows 7 32-bit) and it didnt freeze, however if @Tuism is getting freezes on 32-bit then I guess it isn't that...

    I also have dual monitors running (my mom's PC doesnt...hrm...) can't imagine how that'd cause it to freeze but I guess you never know =/

    Regarding the bugs being fixed, ladders still throw you off/bob you up and down at the top, and I don't think I've mentioned this before but if you break the cage of a captured bro and then he dies (with a nearby explosion for instance) you can still "pick him up" and get an extra life...

    EDIT 2:
    If I could find a machine on which it crashes... and then test the project on there... that might find it.
    I wonder if it crashes on my dad's laptop...
  • Oh sorry, yes, freeze. music was still playing. Could you perhaps write a loop outside of main game to track the state of things so that if the game freezes, music is still playing, we can dump some info for you, or something?

    Too bad I'm in Jozi.

    And as for the good news... Well, it didn't freeze after those 4 times, I haven't tried it again yet after those 10 - 15 freeze-free minutes.

    Yeah, and when you break a cage, if the captured bro falls down he looks completely different (blonde hair), then returns to captured bro when he lands. And yes if he dies you can still rescue him and get life :)
  • Could you guys add in support for custom joysticks?

    I have 2 arcade-styled joysticks, but I had to use a joystick/keyboard mapper. Feels right at home to play with the joysticks though. Was good fun :D
  • Aha. There might be something to the dual monitor setup causing crashes: We've had some people report problems with DD on dual setups, @Nandrew doesn't hook up his second monitor in the office these days, possibly for that reason. I shall ask him.

    Also, yes, foreach loops can sometimes become infinite. I always add and remove via secondary "safe" lists that only get processed outside of the main iteration loop. C# should generally throw an error if the list is being removed from during your foreach, but there aren't any safeguards in place to check for runaway additions. Not saying it's definitely a problem, but it might be. Good luck!

    Am feeling the pain of "WTF! WHY IS IT CRASHING?!" right now too. :/
  • This might be a bit late in the game, but I just realised I havn't said: Bro Force for the win!
    So here goes... BRO FORCE FOR THE WIN!
  • edited
    Also, yes, foreach loops can sometimes become infinite. I always add and remove via secondary "safe" lists that only get processed outside of the main iteration loop. C# should generally throw an error if the list is being removed from during your foreach, but there aren't any safeguards in place to check for runaway additions. Not saying it's definitely a problem, but it might be. Good luck!
    My favourite C# protip for this is to just use .ToArray() when you are using foreach to iterate through a collection that you want to modify. ie

    foreach (var item in collection.ToArray())
        if (item.RemoveMe)

    There might be something to the dual monitor setup causing crashes
    We've been testing locally on dual monitor setups with no problems... maybe I should try using the secondary monitor...

    Thanked by 1TheFuntastic
  • When Im removing I personally avoid foreach like the plague and rather do a reverse for loop:
    for (int i = collection.Count - 1; i > -1; i--)

    I dont like it when people advocate foreach for everything :/ foreach has purposes, but removal is not one of them.
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    @edg3 I agree. We've got lots of other types of loops. Just that While and For loops have obvious infinite loop caveats. I know the internal workings of Foreach less well and use it less (though as it turned out Raithza had a safe solution).

    Also, that's an elegant trick regarding iterating through a For loop backwards (I think I'll use that).
  • Here is the latest pixel art build:

    It's got even safer loops, as well as a save progress function and an extra cool firey explosion for Chuck Norris.
  • Still freezing (with the same setup as usual), got to the third level, died then it froze near the beginning of the level...

    So I guess it is indeed to do with the duel monitor setup then?
  • I still don't get any freezes, but I'm running a single display. Will try and test a dual display sometime during the week. Also, Bro Dredd's rocket is still acting weird. Don't know if you tried to fix it already.
  • Lasted quite long for me, I thought I could report problem free... But 13 minutes or so in it crashed :(

    Was playing Brambo but really there wasn't much going on that's hectic or different... Sorry dude. I dunno how dual monitors can cause something like this, maybe hook it up and see...
  • FYI, running a dual monitor setup as well.
  • Disabled my second monitor, played through fine, no freezes.
    Minimized the game and re-enabled my second monitor, it froze on the last level.

    Regarding the "continue" button. How do you "save" for that because I started a game and got to level 2, then quit to the menu and when I pressed start again, it started on level 2 (I've mentioned this before) however I then went to level 3 and once again quit to the menu. However I didn't seem to be able to highlight the "continue" button. As it turns out this is not possible with a controller, I had to use my keyboard to move only 1 down (presumably the cursor is moving 1 down every frame).

    Also if you cancel the intro high-five and keep pressing fire, the words "Free Lives" never go away, you can keep refreshing them. The same seems to happen with the fading out from the outro/credits scene (that you get to when you press escape from the menu) just before the application exits.
  • Running dual monitor (and out of the zip) and no problems here.

    Gameplay wise. With BroGuiver: when pressing down, and then firing I think it would be cool if he dropped the TNT on his current location as opposed to throwing it.

    Otherwise I am looking forward to the day I can throw money at you guys :)
  • We're now thinking it might be the .DLL's we're using that could be causing the freezing... hopefully. We've got to give an extra thanks to D3zmodos who's done a fantastic job in helping us spot this (and assuming it IS the actual problem that'll finally allow me to sleep peacefully).

  • EatMyDiction, I don't have words.

  • edited
    @BlackShipsFilltheSky lol 0:50. Congrats on all the attention btw :)

    and that laughter after blowing them up with turkey, hahaha
  • There's a new version of the prototype:

    We're curious to know if it is still crashing. There are some boosts, BA Broracus's grenade is nice and juicy. There are saves (of a sort).

    The controls have been totally reworked to be identical to the old controls. If there are weirdnesses in the controls we'd like to know (we will get round to improving ladder usage and some other things).
  • faaaaaantastic news guys: NO CRASHES :D

    I had to stop myself from playing :)

    2 piece of feedback I just remembered:

    1) Stage context - I'd lost count of how many stages I was going through, and it actually felt like I was playing random stages. If I knew which stage/level I was on - counting 1-2, 1-3, etc, it would help me feel like I'm progressing :)

    2) JUMP BUTTON. Having a jump button separate from the up to jump AND climb ladders will help me save all the grief I have wanting to jump up under a ladder for a pot shot then died. Maybe it's present on the xbox controller (can't remember) but really you should think about adding a jump button.

  • Ok, so no freezes for me either. But I finally managed to get Bro Dredd's rocket jump in action.

  • Geez dude haha cool trick :) I do love the level of interaction your system of stuff allows - between shots and enemies and the terrain and the weapons, it's wonderful and super inspirational :)

    And I must say this revision is MUCH harder - the liberal sprinkling of suicide bombers and the new diarrhoeal vomit of explosives after you disable a hidey-hole really took me a while to figure out. It's BRUTAL :)
  • edited
    @Rigormortis Sweet Exploit! That's brilliant (though sadly we'll have to take out).

    When you said "Rocket Jump" I had my heart set on something else. That's more like rocket cheating! (smiley with the tongue sticking out)
  • :P <- this one?
  • edited
    @Tuism Thanks for testing. That's a super big relief. Also, I'm glad you're finally getting to try out the more difficult later stages.

    We'll definitely be adding context for the levels long before we release a final version. Though even this version could really use at least a little bit of reference to the progress.

    Also... What we could probably do is add some customization of the jump controls in the keyboard settings. Having fewer buttons is nice and accessible... but isn't ideal for experienced players.
  • edited
    @Tuism The tiny blue smileys are stifling my ability to express myself on the internet! (frustrated blue face)
  • long as the system allows it, then I'm not cheating :P
  • @Rigormortis True! I was too hasty in disparaging your character!
  • edited
    @BlackShipsFillTheSky So this is the first time I've played BroForce. I just couldn't resist any longer :P (I have work to do you know), and it looks amazing so far!

    My game froze though (like 3 levels in). I haven't been following this thread perfectly, but I recall reading about freezes possibly relating to dual monitor setups. Well I only have a single monitor setup. I'll play again a couple of times over the next few days and I'll report if it happens again.

    Yeah I seem to get the freezes pretty often and it's quite random. Is the game perhaps running on multiple threads?
  • edited
    @Denzil Did you download the 24 October build?

    The game is pretty unfancy in its workings, and it has never Mc-Frozed-Balls on any of our machines, which is why the freezing is so confusing.
  • edited
    @BlackShipsFillTheSky I thought I did. It's labelled 22 though so obviously I didn't. Sorry for any confusion!

    I'll test it again and report back.

    - Unfortunately, the game froze again randomly. Although I could play much further this time, but I only tested once, so maybe I was just lucky

    Besides bug reports, I have to say though that this game really is very awesome! Can't wait for the final product!
  • edited
    Sooooo weird! We've tested the new art version a little bit... and so far it looks like whatever the bug is it isn't in that version. But this is making me paranoid.
  • edited
    @BlackShipsFilltheSky Odd, I've just played for nearly an hour now without any freezes. Has anyone else reported a freeze for this version?

    If not, I wouldn't worry about it. My computer has its moments of disloyalty.
  • edited
    We were talking about planning loops for BROFORCE amongst ourselves in the office.

    I'm not certain where a better analysis of the idea of overlapping game loops is... but this article sums up one idea quite simply and nicely.

    <-- I'm posting it here so @Raithza reads it.

    [edit] @Denzil Thanks for keeping on playing! Sorry that you're up so late (3am) (frowny face). You've mentioned before that your job had been keeping you from playing BROFORCE... I take little pleasure in the fact that your current playing streak perhaps proves the wisdom in your avoidance of our game. (sort of happy, sort of sad face)

    I'm super glad it hasn't frozen again... A little confused. Once we've gotten some more feedback we'll make a decision. Thanks again!
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    @BlackShipsFilltheSky Haha :P haha, no problem, I would've been up this late regardless. I've sorta shifted my sleep by about 6 hours of what is considered normal, so I can work at night. Studying engineering and writing my final year project report - I guess a little broforce break here and there isn't too bad :P

    Good luck!
  • (with great humor)
    Dude, you sound like an Elcor fm Mass effect
    (unable to contain laughter)
  • 30 minutes and 2 straight playthroughs later, no freezes :D Yay!
  • 30 minutes and 2 straight playthroughs later, no freezes Yay!
    sweeeeet! thanks!
  • edited
    I think we need to make some extra special (read: unfairly difficult) levels for D3zmodos.

    Thanks dude!
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